Structural warranty

[Mike_scotland]

Has anyone got any names of structural warranty providers for Scotland? 

 

I need it for my self build mortgage.

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

[Thedreamer]

I looked into this but didn't bother as the mortgage lender did not require it.

 

Also nobody takes out self build warranties here. 

 

[nod]

I took one out on the off chance that we will sell

Which we intend doing next year 

From a claim point of view they are a waste of money 

Three visits in two years 15 minutes each time 

Inspected the roof from the floor 

Foundations from his car 

Sign off Told us what he needed in certificates Then buggered off without looking at the finished house 

Protec 

[Mike_scotland]

3 hours ago, Thedreamer said:

I looked into this but didn't bother as the mortgage lender did not require it.

 

Also nobody takes out self build warranties here. 

 

What did the mortgage company need the architect sign off?

[Thedreamer]

Just now, Mike_scotland said:

What did the mortgage company need the architect sign off?

 

No architect. Used a house designer, (design, planning and building warrant work) structural engineer (structural work and SER certificate) and RICS surveyor for inspections and certificates to the lender.

 

All in cost £3.5k.

[nod]

8 hours ago, Thedreamer said:

 

No architect. Used a house designer, (design, planning and building warrant work) structural engineer (structural work and SER certificate) and RICS surveyor for inspections and certificates to the lender.

 

All in cost £3.5k.

Problem I found was if you come to sell within 10 years Many lenders won’t accept an Architecht cert HSBC being one 

 

For the next build we won’t bother 

We are unlikely to sell But no one can say for sure 

A good friend of ours built his forever home Then like us found another plot and also found the profit from the first one to tempting Decided to sell after a year and bought a retrospective warranty From Protec 

for about 500 more than we paid 

No hassle all completed in a week 

 

[Mike_scotland]

14 hours ago, Thedreamer said:

 

No architect. Used a house designer, (design, planning and building warrant work) structural engineer (structural work and SER certificate) and RICS surveyor for inspections and certificates to the lender.

 

All in cost £3.5k.

Are you Scotland?

 

So can you set up a surveyor yourself to give progress to the banks?

[Thedreamer]

6 hours ago, nod said:

Problem I found was if you come to sell within 10 years Many lenders won’t accept an Architecht cert HSBC being one 

 

For the next build we won’t bother 

We are unlikely to sell But no one can say for sure 

A good friend of ours built his forever home Then like us found another plot and also found the profit from the first one to tempting Decided to sell after a year and bought a retrospective warranty From Protec 

for about 500 more than we paid 

No hassle all completed in a week 

 

 

Yes, that is definitely a consideration.

 

However for us, we won't be moving away because of our family croft.

[Thedreamer]

2 hours ago, Mike_scotland said:

Are you Scotland?

 

So can you set up a surveyor yourself to give progress to the banks?

 

Yes in Skye, our lender had the option of:

 

Architect, NHBC builder, warranty or Surveyor. 

 

The first two I did not want because of high professional fees for a fairly simple design and a large builder would have been very expensive. I would be financing, skips, scaffolding, loos, containers, admin and profit margin.

 

As mentioned earlier nobody has warranties here, presumably to far to travel. 

 

The Surveyor inspections at around £1.2k seemed reasonable and he also did a review of my costings to provide a qualification for my mortgage application. Also as somebody who is very inexperienced in building, having a professional I could speak to was very comforting, however selecting good contractors and lots of research and ample time between stages, meant that I did not need any extra help.

 

Also had regular building inspections by Highland Council.

[Mike_scotland]

OK guys thanks,

 

Can I just ask what you thinks best approach then? - we have got a structural from buildzone there saying its going to be 5k or there abouts for the warranty fees and a site audit!!! I don't really want to be paying that.

 

However once we finish I will  need to remortgage the house and want to make sure I have a few mortgage lenders I can approach, so if I go with architect liability for 6 years I need a mortgage company who will accept that!

 

Also what happens after 6 years it runs out? But you don't have any cover do the banks accept it after 6 years as nothing is going to happen or Or?

 

 

On 03/10/2020 at 22:41, Thedreamer said:

 

 

[Thedreamer]

8 hours ago, Mike_scotland said:

OK guys thanks,

 

Can I just ask what you thinks best approach then? - we have got a structural from buildzone there saying its going to be 5k or there abouts for the warranty fees and a site audit!!! I don't really want to be paying that.

 

However once we finish I will  need to remortgage the house and want to make sure I have a few mortgage lenders I can approach, so if I go with architect liability for 6 years I need a mortgage company who will accept that!

 

Also what happens after 6 years it runs out? But you don't have any cover do the banks accept it after 6 years as nothing is going to happen or Or?

 

 

 

 

My mortgage just converts from a self build to a residential policy, no additional fees.

 

I will review this position after two or three years if I need to move. 

 

I've not sure on your remortgage query it's a bit different to me.

 

[SuperJohnG]

@Mike_scotland

 

Its a real PITA the whole structural warranty thing. 

 

I have read and read on here and if you never need a remortgage you don't need it. 

 

But for those of us who will (me) it's a bitter pill to swallow, architect cert is ok. But in reality it does not cover latent defects, hence it will get you the ability to remortgage (with some high street lenders) but only for 6 year. Then you are stuck for a wee while.  

 

A structural warranty will provide the cover for latent defects (but extremely unlikely to ever be used or if you did need it to be able to claim on it) but it will give you access to all lenders generally without hassle. 

 

I fully hate it and detest it as a tax on the those who are risk adverse.  But I think I will pay it to have peace of mind. Mine is 2600 I think through protec. 900 quid for the policy the rest is inspection fees. Complete farce. 

 

(Runs away to review my approach on not using architect certs)  

 

 

[SuperJohnG]

This was a similar thread. I'm now wondering if possible it might prove cheaper overall to get the latent defects policy on day 1 ( say 900 quid) and then get the PCC from your architect  for the price of 4 trips to site, which should be cheaper than 1800 quid (in my case). 

 

@PeterW was it you who had the latent defects policy before? And was it cheaper? 

@the_r_sole you might have some input here? 

 

[Mike_scotland]

9 hours ago, SuperJohnG said:

@Mike_scotland

 

Its a real PITA the whole structural warranty thing. 

 

I have read and read on here and if you never need a remortgage you don't need it. 

 

But for those of us who will (me) it's a bitter pill to swallow, architect cert is ok. But in reality it does not cover latent defects, hence it will get you the ability to remortgage (with some high street lenders) but only for 6 year. Then you are stuck for a wee while.  

 

A structural warranty will provide the cover for latent defects (but extremely unlikely to ever be used or if you did need it to be able to claim on it) but it will give you access to all lenders generally without hassle. 

 

I fully hate it and detest it as a tax on the those who are risk adverse.  But I think I will pay it to have peace of mind. Mine is 2600 I think through protec. 900 quid for the policy the rest is inspection fees. Complete farce. 

 

(Runs away to review my approach on not using architect certs)  

 

 

What is the latent defects policy? Is that the steuctural insurance once build is done 

[SuperJohnG]

2 hours ago, Mike_scotland said:

What is the latent defects policy? Is that the steuctural insurance once build is done 

So a structural warranty is just that. A latent defects policy, just an insurance policy which you claim against in the structural defects, defects in materials etc. Saves you chasing a builder, or kit supplier or something legally  which would be horrifically expensive and hard to prove.

 

The structural warranty is made up of two parts: The policy itself, and then the site audit fees (oh and the tax.....). See my quote below:

 

 

 

 

I had a great chat with another broker this morning and explained my frustration at this. He was actually really helpful, told me to just go with an Architects certificate..and sent me the links to what lenders accepted what structural warranties and also who accepted PCC's (architect cert). 

 

Protek - https://www.protekwarranty.co.uk/resources/lender-approval/

Build-Zone - https://www.build-zone.com/approved-lenders  

 

The CML website seems to be down so the link to the Architects Cert acceptance may not work right now - https://www.cml.org.uk/lenders-handbook/englandandwales/question-list/1919/

[newhome]

The issue with a structural warranty is that if the company goes out of business (as happened last year or the year before with one company) lenders quickly remove them from their approved list. 
 

And who is liable if it’s a real self build with no builder contracted to build? I always wondered who would be liable in that scenario. Does anyone actually know someone who has actually had a pay out from a self build warranty or defects remediated? 
 

[SuperJohnG]

12 minutes ago, newhome said:

The issue with a structural warranty is that if the company goes out of business (as happened last year or the year before with one company) lenders quickly remove them from their approved list. 
 

And who is liable if it’s a real self build with no builder contracted to build? I always wondered who would be liable in that scenario. Does anyone actually know someone who has actually had a pay out from a self build warranty or defects remediated? 
 

That's the point really - it's an insurance policy. So if the builder goes bust (or in most cases here where it's self build, no one to claim against) there is no need to chase them. The insurers pay out.  Like a car policy...the insurer pays out, not the person who crashed into you. 

 

I've just had a lengthy chat with ProTek to try get the site audit fees down, but they can't as its based on whoever buds the job. I did get the name of the surveyor....who is based in Yorkshire, really nice guy. He has a campervan and travels round scotland 3 days a week every week doing audit's. There are no Scottish surveyors.

 

He did try to tell me, very few lenders accept PCC's now...which is not correct, roughly the same amount of lenders (70) accept PCC's as do accept the Protek warranty. Selfbuildzone have around 120 lenders.

 

My architect seems to be able to provide PCC's at around 100-15 a pop. and say 4 stages, which will get me my remortgage. It leaves me without a latent defect policy though, which I feel will play on my mind. 

 

I know others have said they have bought retrospective latent defect policies for much cheaper, but that is not what I am hearing from the warranty suppliers, they say it will be more expensive.  

[Thedreamer]

For the structural policies I just feel like they would wiggle out of making payment if I needed to claim. Have any members here ever made a claim? (Hopefully not!)

 

Same with large builders that offer an guarantee, it's a battle to get any work done in say three years after finishing.

 

Your point @SuperJohnGabout lack of Scottish Surveyors is that just for this provider, or generally? I wondered why in Scotland hardly anybody is doing it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SuperJohnG]

51 minutes ago, Thedreamer said:

For the structural policies I just feel like they would wiggle out of making payment if I needed to claim. Have any members here ever made a claim? (Hopefully not!)

 

Same with large builders that offer an guarantee, it's a battle to get any work done in say three years after finishing.

 

Your point @SuperJohnGabout lack of Scottish Surveyors is that just for this provider, or generally? I wondered why in Scotland hardly anybody is doing it?

 

 

It was something that Protek said - there were none in Scotland on their list.

 

I think this would be the same for Selfbuildzone.  

 

That specific surevyor said that he had worked for a lot of the warranty companies, but Protek seemed head and shoudlers above the rest. Whereas the likes of NHBC will do their damnedest (Sp?!) to avoud paying, Protek were fair and paid up. 

[newhome]

1 hour ago, Thedreamer said:

Your point @SuperJohnGabout lack of Scottish Surveyors is that just for this provider, or generally? I wondered why in Scotland hardly anybody is doing it?

 

My surveyor from Buildzone travelled from Wales! 
 

Maybe the issue with Scotland is that you can’t have private building control inspections incorporated into the product so there isn’t as much of a market for them in Scotland, especially if you don’t need one to secure a mortgage. 

[newhome]

1 hour ago, SuperJohnG said:

That's the point really - it's an insurance policy. So if the builder goes bust (or in most cases here where it's self build, no one to claim against) there is no need to chase them. The insurers pay out.  Like a car policy...the insurer pays out, not the person who crashed into you. 

I thought the way that the NHBC policies worked was that it was up to the builder to pay out in the first 2 years? Not sure if that’s the case with a self build warranty. I have to confess I have never read mine. 

[Mr Punter]

3 minutes ago, newhome said:

I thought the way that the NHBC policies worked was that it was up to the builder to pay out in the first 2 years? Not sure if that’s the case with a self build warranty. I have to confess I have never read mine. 

 

Yes with most of these the builder is liable for the first 2 years.  The policies often also cover for the builder going broke in that time.  I have spent about £40k in premiums and nobody has made a claim.

[newhome]

2 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

Yes with most of these the builder is liable for the first 2 years.  The policies often also cover for the builder going broke in that time.  I have spent about £40k in premiums and nobody has made a claim.

Thanks. Which is what I meant by ‘who is liable’ when it’s a real self build without a builder because that implies that you are responsible for the standard of your own work for the first 2 years (unless self build warranties are worded differently). 

[Mike_scotland]

6 hours ago, SuperJohnG said:

So a structural warranty is just that. A latent defects policy, just an insurance policy which you claim against in the structural defects, defects in materials etc. Saves you chasing a builder, or kit supplier or something legally  which would be horrifically expensive and hard to prove.

 

The structural warranty is made up of two parts: The policy itself, and then the site audit fees (oh and the tax.....). See my quote below:

 

 

 

 

I had a great chat with another broker this morning and explained my frustration at this. He was actually really helpful, told me to just go with an Architects certificate..and sent me the links to what lenders accepted what structural warranties and also who accepted PCC's (architect cert). 

 

Protek - https://www.protekwarranty.co.uk/resources/lender-approval/

Build-Zone - https://www.build-zone.com/approved-lenders  

 

The CML website seems to be down so the link to the Architects Cert acceptance may not work right now - https://www.cml.org.uk/lenders-handbook/englandandwales/question-list/1919/

I got my buildzone structural warranty quote back.... its £6000!! That's for warranty for 10 year and site audits (audits about 4500k).

 

How come yours are quote low? Technical audit at 1872?

[SuperJohnG]

30 minutes ago, Mike_scotland said:

I got my buildzone structural warranty quote back.... its £6000!! That's for warranty for 10 year and site audits (audits about 4500k).

 

How come yours are quote low? Technical audit at 1872?

Where are you in Scotland? 

 

Value and size of house? And construction  type?