Perfectionism, finishing quality and builders

[Oz07]

Hope i'm not breaking any rules but this is that guy I talked about earlier. I've never used him but talking to him you can tell he's dead passionate and has an eye for detail. As for the standard of work I think the photos speak for themselves

 

https://www.instagram.com/zamonpark/?hl=en

[Iceverge]

In my experience most builders are happy to do as good a job as they can manage given the right motivations. 

 

A self builder is a great position to be in as you control the coffers and can simply halt progress any time you wish, provided you are willing to pick up the cost of lost time.  

 

Settling out a clear standard before the job starts, checking in shortly after it starts  (often a cuppa and a lion bar helps) and tidying up any misunderstandings. Finally, making sure whoever is doing the work doesn't scarper off site never to be seen again but actually checks with you before leaving that everything is OK. 

 

Sometimes if you want things to be completed to a more exacting standard it'll simply take more time. Be sure that the tradeperson knows you're willing to pay for this. 

 

Lastly don't expect the impossible, building is often physically difficult. Working at height, outdoors on a blustery wet day or crouched under an awkward stairs will never produce cleanroom like results.

[ReX]

On 20/09/2020 at 16:48, PeterStarck said:

I was spoilt when I did a complete renovation of a Victorian cottage forty years ago. The local builder and his son were truly excellent. They allowed me to help where I could, showed me how to do jobs and listened to exactly what I wanted and delivered it. When I started this build I naively expected the same. Unfortunately my builder had retired and I took a recommendation from a friend for a carpenter to fit the soffitts. The work was awful and I let him go after the first day, he couldn't understand why. I have found some good workers since but it's very difficult so I ended up doing a lot of the work myself with Wendy to help.

 

I am in a similar situation, I have had a very positive experience in the past, but recently (in the new house) I was really disappointed with few builders. I try to do everything on my own but there are some large jobs I can't do and the time is also the other issue. Thankfully really few things are left do be done now.

 

On 20/09/2020 at 17:29, Oz07 said:

Hope i'm not breaking any rules but this is that guy I talked about earlier. I've never used him but talking to him you can tell he's dead passionate and has an eye for detail. As for the standard of work I think the photos speak for themselves

 

https://www.instagram.com/zamonpark/?hl=en

 

I have learnt few things from this guy: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzqh_8hImIc9fhvUu0oVC8w

In my opinion, the quality of his jobs and the passion in doing them (including explaining mistakes, etc.) is impressive. I would love to hire him but he is based in the US :). He doesn't cut any corner and he takes the time necessary to do things properly. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by ReX

[dangti6]

A friend of mine is a bit of an odd job man. I called him in once to give me a hand putting a fence up as he owed me a favour. 
 

I’m one of these people that likes things to be right, which often takes a bit more time to fine tune and he said something to me that will stay with me for a long time...

 

“I wouldn’t  take this up for a living, you’ll never make any money!”
 

I’ve received my fair share of half decent work over the years that would be pretty much perfect had it been finished off with a little more care. Often when you mention it they will rectify, but there have been occasions where I’ve redone stuff.
 

I also stand by the fact that I pay people because I want a better job than I am capable of, but find if you take your time doing it yourself you’ll work to a standard you are content with, and can sit back and compare it to what you’d probably get if you paid which is often enough to allow you to live with some imperfections. (Obviously you need to know your limitations). When you pay and it’s not right it does your head in.

 

I am that guy that inspects stuff at the end of every day of project to see if anything looks like it’s going to be an issue so I can raise it before it becomes a problem. 
 

Unfortunately I’ve seen some terrible stuff that the homeowner sees no issue with - and that’s a big part of why it’s so common.

[PeterW]

Even the pro’s when paid to do a decent job get it wrong ... this is in a very nice hotel, and is one of only two loft suites in the hotel so £300+ per night.. tiling is pretty good, then you see this behind the freestanding bath in the bedroom ..!!

 

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

Even the pro’s when paid to do a decent job get it wrong ... this is in a very nice hotel, and is one of only two loft suites in the hotel so £300+ per night.. tiling is pretty good, then you see this behind the freestanding bath in the bedroom ..!!

Were you sniffing around for loose change?!? ( again )  

Edited September 22, 2020 by Nickfromwales

[Visti]

I've been stung by many a trade. Tried everything including giving an instruction manual and taking then through the process. They will just ignore it and do it the way they always have. Some will care for their work, others won't. Best you can hope for are good recommendations to sift out the latter.

 

I highly recommend Eastern European trades for quality. At least the crew I found for woodwork and bathrooms. They have been some one the best on our site. Work diligently, detailed oriented and always care for the finished result. They don't have to be micromanaged or chased, and I can leave them to address issues and propose better ideas than my original designs (and they even check with me first!). They even clean up too. Love them. 

[Pete]

13 hours ago, PeterW said:

Even the pro’s when paid to do a decent job get it wrong ... this is in a very nice hotel, and is one of only two loft suites in the hotel so £300+ per night.. tiling is pretty good, then you see this behind the freestanding bath in the bedroom ..!!

 

I'm as bad as you when out, always looking at the standard of work and comparing levels etc! Even got the wife doing it now?

[ReX]

16 hours ago, dangti6 said:

“I wouldn’t  take this up for a living, you’ll never make any money!”

 

That's exactly what I thought when I did some projects on my own.

 

But it is not always the case: in many occasions I have seen them not using the right technique, the right tool or even basic common sense. For repetitive builds (e.g. equally spaced wooden battens wall cladding, drawers, stair treads, risers, stringers) I always make templates. It takes a little bit of time but then you proceed fast and have exact consistent measurements. 

 

In another case a bricklayer was raising a party wall in the garden. The drawings stated the wall was supposed to be 180m high, resulting in 100cm lower than the existing kitchen extension roof level (I don't remember the exact measures TBH). Well, the guy used as reference the indoor floor level, so the wall built was 20cm lower than the kitchen extension, 80cm higher than it should have been. And the 100cm drop from kitchen extension level was on the drawings. His justification was that he couldn't use the garden grass level as reference, so he assumed the best way was to use the kitchen floor level. He didn't think about using the other measure.

 

Quote

I also stand by the fact that I pay people because I want a better job than I am capable of, but find if you take your time doing it yourself you’ll work to a standard you are content with, and can sit back and compare it to what you’d probably get if you paid which is often enough to allow you to live with some imperfections. (Obviously you need to know your limitations). When you pay and it’s not right it does your head in.

 

I have almost never found a professional (that does this for living) that can do a better job than I could do on my own. Even if I go for "premium" recommended people. Of course there were few exclusion of very good, exceptional people. If you think about it, it is depressing: it is like going to a restaurant (not a fast food) knowing you could have a better meal at home, so only for the convenience of not cooking. Surely it is my luck plus the fact I actually enjoy doing stuff on my own.

It seems that the builders I've used and seen in action (also the recommended and friendly ones) were doing their jobs just because they didn't find anything better. 

 

Quote

I am that guy that inspects stuff at the end of every day of project to see if anything looks like it’s going to be an issue so I can raise it before it becomes a problem. 

 

I do the same but unfortunately they don't always listen or have even the knowledge to amend (see comment from Visti below).

 

12 hours ago, Visti said:

I've been stung by many a trade. Tried everything including giving an instruction manual and taking then through the process. They will just ignore it and do it the way they always have.

 

The thing about the instruction manual & talking them through the process makes me smile: I did exactly the same with a carpenter and he was clearly annoyed and surprised a DIYer would attempt to explain him things about his trade. At the end of the first day I noticed he completely ignored what I told him. This was the end of it, I decided to let him go and had to redo the whole thing my own.

 

Quote

I highly recommend Eastern European trades for quality. At least the crew I found for woodwork and bathrooms. They have been some one the best on our site. Work diligently, detailed oriented and always care for the finished result. They don't have to be micromanaged or chased, and I can leave them to address issues and propose better ideas than my original designs (and they even check with me first!). They even clean up too. Love them. 

 

It is difficult to generalise from a personal experience, but I have seen the same. Also because the local building standards are higher than here, so they are used to more demanding customers.

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by ReX

[dangti6]

Who else looks through Facebook pages, company portfolios etc and is astonished by some of the stuff they happily put their name to?

 

I should grab a photo of a fence that was recently put up near me. It’s on the p*ss. They have made up an infill using bowed timber as they started from one end of the run and later realised that the fence they joined up to had a cut down panel. A bit of thought would have made a better job. Perhaps they mentioned it to the customer and they couldn’t justify the cost of one more panel to replace the shorter one and bridge the gap. I doubt it though. They happily nailed an advertising board to it so must be chuffed with their efforts. 

[farm boy]

I like perfection but rarley achieve it myself unless I done something five times before. I struck lucky with my brickies who were 95% good, but roofer one was only 80% good, so got roofer two in to snagg but he was only 50% good, so ended paying roofer two full amount for half a job then doing it again myself. Roofer two even bought waste in from another site which is a definate "no no"