Basic upvc frame job Q‘s.

[Gone West]

Just now, zoothorn said:

Can someone just help me with 'frame fixings'?

Try this video.

 

[Marvin]

Yes. 10mm Hammerfix = 10mm drilled hole.

 

When drilling the hole through the frame you need to avoid the cavity. If your frame is set well in from the outside wall face this may be tricky may be an angle job. Be careful not to push the drill in so far that the drill (not the Drill bit) rubs on the gasket or frame marking it.

 

I used window fixing clips:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194404674704?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338365712&toolid=20006&customid=EB61532596&

 

These knock into the grooves in the side of the window frame and you have to chistel a groove for them in the window reveals to be fixed in.

 

Youll get the idea from this:

 

 

Good luck

 

 

[zoothorn]

@Marvin thanks for your help. Alas I don't have the time for ebay bits in post though. I have to do this tmrw, with screwfix or toolstation xyz: at it was, I was gonna dive into town & try changing these frame fixings for 8x120mm.

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

Could someone help with this:

 

The clips of the frame fix, like the one Marvin added ( thanks/ did see this among many) shows someone attatching abitof wood... to a wall.

 

Mine isn't this at all though. It's attatching a (bendable) upvc frame, then a gap of some sort (my gap is fairly big- average is 25mm), to a wall. Quite different.

 

There are no specific frame fix clips to help, so I just don't know how to use these "frame fixings".

 

Any help appreciated. Zh

 

 

 

 

[Gone West]

43 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Mine isn't this at all though. It's attatching a (bendable) upvc frame, then a gap of some sort (my gap is fairly big- average is 25mm), to a wall. Quite different.

Put packers between the frame and the wall, above and below the hole, so the window frame is not bendy. The packers can be proper plastic packers or just pieces of wood trimmed to size. As in the video imagine there is a gap between the wood and the wall.

[zoothorn]

I'm totally confused chaps, please can someone help?

 

I watch another youtube clip. The chap is meticulous, has a 20mm gap between upvc frame & wall. Similar to me.

 

He then attaches half the length of a long screw, with a rawl plug. So 120m screw, he add a 60mm rawl plug ontonit. He then inserts this/ all of it through the frame. Hammers it, then screws in. So the plug, sits ( presumably) in but not projects out of... the wall. Like a normal rawl plug. How this goes through the frame... Ido not know/ is not shown.

 

This is completely different, to what I am reading up about, & watching clips of ( a bit of wood to a wall) about the " frame fixings" I have: these show the "rawl plug"( whatever it is called/ plastic outside bit) -STOPPING- at the same point the screw head does. At the frame. Wtf??

 

@PeterW could you help maybe? I bought these frame fixings on your suggestion, but I just cannot understand the principle though.

 

thanks, zoot.

 

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, Gone West said:

Put packers between the frame and the wall, above and below the hole, so the window frame is not bendy. The packers can be proper plastic packers or just pieces of wood trimmed to size. As in the video imagine there is a gap between the wood and the wall.

GW I've done this. 
 

Its how I fix this wedged in frame... to the wall, with " frame fixings". Or.... even if I have to. I just don't understand how.

 

Zh

[Gone West]

3 hours ago, Gone West said:

The whole frame fixing goes into the window frame and into the wall. The type I used many years ago went in with the screw halfway out of the plug and they were knocked in with a hammer and then a final tighten with a screwdriver.

@zoothorn  As I posted three hours ago, I can't think of a different way to describe how to do it, sorry.

[zoothorn]

11 minutes ago, Gone West said:

@zoothorn  As I posted three hours ago, I can't think of a different way to describe how to do it, sorry.

But GW, I see two versions of this. This is my point.

 

One clip, the plastic section resides within the upvc frame.

 

Another clip, the plastic section ( as far as I can establish) resides in the wall/ ie not within the upvc frame, like a standard rawl plug does, but, it is somehow ( this is part of the mystery) pushed through the frame.

 

If its pushed through the frame.... how the feck can the screw not be pushed through the same hole?! 
 

Both versions just don't compute with me. The only way I can think how, is the frame is taken out, then out back in again. But both clips show this fundamentally -not- happening.

 

I'm utterly baffled. Zh

 

 

[joe90]

Zoot, frame fixings and rawl  plugs work differently, rawl plugs are in the wall only, frame fixings are in the window frame and wall (and gap), just pretend that piece of wood shown previously is your window frame. Just do it and stop questioning how/why they work, trust me they do 🤷‍♂️ But make sure you are drilling into brickwork and not fresh air in the cavity.

Edited September 1, 2022 by joe90

[Gone West]

19 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

But GW, I see two versions of this. This is my point.

 

One clip, the plastic section resides within the upvc frame.

 

Another clip, the plastic section ( as far as I can establish) resides in the wall/ ie not within the upvc frame, like a standard rawl plug does, but, it is somehow ( this is part of the mystery) pushed through the frame.

 

If its pushed through the frame.... how the feck can the screw not be pushed through the same hole?! 
 

Both versions just don't compute with me. The only way I can think how, is the frame is taken out, then out back in again. But both clips show this fundamentally -not- happening.

 

I'm utterly baffled. Zh

 

 

As @joe90 said you have frame fixings so they should be fitted as frame fixings. They are not raw plugs. Drill a hole of the appropriate size through the frame and into the wall and knock the fixing in.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Gone West

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, joe90 said:

Zoot, frame fixings and rawl  plugs work differently, rawl plugs are in the wall only, frame fixings are in the window frame and wall (and gap), just pretend that piece of wood shown previously is your window frame. Just do it and stop questioning how/why they work, trust me they do 🤷‍♂️

So unless I'm mistaken, you therefore keep the frame -in place- all through this procedure then?

 

I've only ever used rawl plugs; you have a 50mm screw... you drill into wall 50mm.

 

Here, if the frame doesn't come out to drill the wall hole, you must need a huge great long drillbit? In my case 120mm screw + 25mm gap + 50mm frame. So I need to buy a 200mm long drill bit?? And so now this doesn't make sense.
 

I must be not understanding something flaming obvious here. 
 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, Gone West said:

As @joe90 said you have frame fixings so they should be fitted as frame fixings. They are not raw plugs.

I've never used frame fixings before so, if no instructions, I have no undertanding of how they are used. They look identical to rawl plugs. But hammered or something- ?!

 

Driving me utterly insane this.

[Gone West]

2 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

And so now this doesn't make sense.

Yes the drill bit should be at least as long as the fixing.

[joe90]

9 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

So unless I'm mistaken, you therefore keep the frame -in place- all through this procedure then?

YES

9 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I've only ever used rawl plugs; you have a 50mm screw... you drill into wall 50mm.

NO, you drill 50mm for a 50mm rawl plug and use a  Screw 50mm plus the thickness of what you are fixing.

 

9 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Here, if the frame doesn't come out to drill the wall hole, you must need a huge great long drillbit? In my case 120mm screw + 25mm gap + 50mm frame. So I need to buy a 200mm long drill bit?? And so now this doesn't make sense.

NO, if you want 50mm into wall, 25mm gap, 40mm frame thickness then the frame fixings needs to be 115mm, therefore with a 120mm frame fixing you need to drill into the wall 55mm (I don’t know you frame thickness or gap so work it out fir yourself.

 

does your electric drill have a depth stop? If not just put a bit of tape on the drill bit 125mm from the tip, (buy a longer drill if you have to) drill through the window frame and into the wall till the tape gets to the inside of the window frame (the extra 5mm to stop the screw bottoming out). Tap the frame fixings into the hole with its screw partially in, then tighten screw, eh viola , bobs your uncle and you have mastered yet another skill 🥳

Edited September 1, 2022 by joe90

[zoothorn]

3 minutes ago, Gone West said:

Yes the drill bit should be at least as long as the fixing.

Eh? You surely mean at least as long as the fixing, plus the gap, plus most of the width if the frame section too-??

[joe90]

1 minute ago, zoothorn said:

Eh?

Please don’t reply till I have stopped typing in future 🤣

[Onoff]

Wedge it and pack it on all 4 sides. Drill through your frame into the wall and fit your hammer fixings. 

 

Use expansion foam to fill the gaps. Illbruck FM330 is amazing. Airtight and remains elastic. Streets ahead of anything you'll get at SF/TS. (Don't go bleating it has to be from SF or you haven't got such and such a drill, couldn't give a toss).

 

You might want to mask up your frame to avoid getting foam on it.

 

Trim the foam off. 

 

Buy some uPVC cover strips, neatly cut and stick on with mitre bond (basically 2 pack super glue).

[Onoff]

If your glass is ready fitted you need to remove the beads in order to drill the frame. Take note of where any factory fitted packs are between glass and frame.

[Onoff]

Remove beads with a chisel in the crack line, sharp tap, it works.

 

 

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, joe90 said:

YES

NO, you drill 50mm for a 50mm rawl plug and use a  Screw 50mm plus the thickness of what you are fixing.

 

NO, if you want 50mm into wall, 25mm gap, 40mm frame thickness then the frame fixings needs to be  needs to be 115mm, therefore with a 120mm frame fixing you need to drill into the wall 55mm (I don’t know you frame thickness or gap so work it out fir yourself.

 

does your electric drill have a depth stop? If not just put a bit of tape on the drill bit 125mm from the tip, drill through the window frame and into the wall till the tape gets to the inside of the window frame (the extra 5mm to stop the screw bottoming out). Tap the frame fixings into the hole with its screw partially in, then tighten screw, eh viola , bobs your uncle and you have mastered yet another skill 🥳

A bit more clear, thanks. So I have to buy a bloomin long bit then, 150mm or so. I'd never have known this unless done all this questioning.
 

You see I look on my extension frames, & none show any use of frame fixings/ I mean there's just screw heads visible, not a grey plastic collar bit showing under them. So.. how the bloomin feck was this done/ anyway I'll never know. Yet another zoot build mystery.

 

thx zh

 

 

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, Onoff said:

If your glass is ready fitted you need to remove the beads in order to drill the frame. Take note of where any factory fitted packs are between glass and frame.

No the glass came separately. There were some black odd looking rectangles came with it though. 

The added strips idea: won't work as I have wonky contoured thickass render. I've left a 6mm gap between outside frame, & a useful render outline of where the old frame sat: I was planning to fill with a big bead of silicone something ( that sika  white stuff ?).

 

Then, to get weatherproof, I need a big bead of something for frame to sit on between it & my concrete addition. Lastly the top: a bit fiddly but should remain dry until sorted/ sheltered.

 

Thanks for the steps- really useful, I'm all at sea until such a plan is made clear.

 

Zoot

 

[Onoff]

There are also window fixing cleats you can get that clip or screw into the outside edge of the frame, then get screwed to the block / brickwork, like this:

 

[joe90]

Just now, Onoff said:

There are also window fixing cleats you can get that clip or screw into the outside edge of the frame, then get screwed to the block / brickwork, like this:

 

Yes and these use rawlplugs and screws (or just use metal strapping and self tappers into the frame, but let’s not confuse Zoot anymore eh?).

[zoothorn]

11 hours ago, joe90 said:

Yes and these use rawlplugs and screws (or just use metal strapping and self tappers into the frame, but let’s not confuse Zoot anymore eh?).

No please, I can't cope with this!

 

J, can you tell me. Is Sticks Like Sh*t All weather stuff, suitable for fixing my frame... down onto my concrete?

 

Im not asking what is the best stuff, or your preference, just if this stuff ( which I have enough for the cill to frame join) is acceptable to use for this important area.

 

Thanks, zh

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/evo-stik-sticks-like-sh-t-adhesive-clear-290ml/57252?tc=JA9&ds_kid=92700058176434323&ds_rl=1249416&gclid=Cj0KCQjw08aYBhDlARIsAA_gb0dJ6NpSmFKRRMB6HMMXoB-ct47hFGJ5fL04bBynZ-H4vTvhIWww2pwaAkoWEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds