Basic upvc frame job Q‘s.

[joe90]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

? I guess you mean plaster is softer/ easier to hack off-?

Also it’s easier to patch up afterwards, render/dash can be hard to match.

 

(You finished that porch yet ?, tiling all finished ?)

Edited May 14, 2021 by joe90

[dpmiller]

we build with check reveals over here, so "from the inside" is SOP for the DG fitters.

[Carrerahill]

On 04/09/2020 at 11:13, zoothorn said:

Hi, I want to replace an old wood single glaze window, for my U T room renovation. Could I ask some basic Q’s, advice.

 

Is this a fairly straightforward job on the whole? Should I be measuring the hxw of opening from inside, and addIng 5mm to each side, top, btm to get my new upvc size to order? Before whacking old one out?

 

Any general tips appreciated, thx zh.

 

 

Measure your opening at several positions, take the smallest size then deduct another 5mm per side minimum, even 10 depending on what you are going onto. Be careful to tell the window manufactrer your true size and required size because our manufacturer had a policy that they would automatically remove 10mm from side and height (so take it 5mm each side) I personally, looking back on it now, would have rather they took 20mm off because I was building into a new build I could set them into the TF opening then have the brickie lay up to the window, instead I ended up with 5mm all round which on big windows is nothing and means they need to slide in dead straight and level or they snag and the whole thing was a bit tight actually. I could easily have set them in with room all around and then used spacers and then had the block and concrete sill taken up to the to suit. You live and learn.

 

 

[Carrerahill]

On 04/09/2020 at 16:02, craig said:

Here's a screenshot of a recent survey we carried out. 

With the below survey the external width was larger than the internal width. Our tolerance is 10mm all around and went with this in width and 5mm top and bottom. We would have done 5mm all around but due to how the window was going to be sitting, fitting compriband and PU foam would have been problematic.

Send me your address and I will send you a pocket ruler!

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

Also it’s easier to patch up afterwards, render/dash can be hard to match.

 

(You finished that porch yet ?, tiling all finished ?)

 

Ok I just wonder how far in the frame goes then.. this is the problem.

 

I've got one loose thick 9x9 tile put down as a test for height. which I keep tripping over. Not -quite- finished yet Joe no.

 

 

[craig]

1 minute ago, Carrerahill said:

Send me your address and I will send you a pocket ruler!

 

Obviously not a fan of freehand pen drawing on an iPad then.

[joe90]

31 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Ok I just wonder how far in the frame goes then.

You need to hack a small hole on the plaster to see how deep the frame is

Edited May 14, 2021 by joe90

[zoothorn]

17 minutes ago, joe90 said:

You need to hack a small hole on the plaster to see how deep the frame is

 

Understood Joe. If it goes in say 3/4" past the plaster.. then do I have to remove 3/4" of plaster all the way up to get frame in: or, should I go with my plastered reveal W as my frame width, taking 5mm off each side to be on the safe side?

 

Probably a thicko question.

[joe90]

Personally I would expose the frame all the way round and measure the hole the new window has to fit in, then re plaster the 4 sides to the new window.

[zoothorn]

18 hours ago, joe90 said:

Personally I would expose the frame all the way round and measure the hole the new window has to fit in, then re plaster the 4 sides to the new window.

 

Understood Joe. But if that involves A) an awful lot of plaster hacking (its a tidy job as it is), and B) alot of replastering I'm not skilled at.. what about the idea of 'digging out' the frame (so there's like a trench running up each side of perhaps 3/4" just onwards from the plastered reveal) then filling this trench in with mortar flush as poss to the plaster ? then the frame sits next to these vertical mortared channels L and R.

 

Im not sure if my idea has merit, it certainly isn't me saying "I know best/ I'll do it this way" no way hosay.. I just cant see undoing & redoing the plaster as anything but a very big job, for me. In fact its probably highly likely my idea is idiotic.

[joe90]

44 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

But if that involves

Well the frame has to go in somehow and it will be bigger than the inside or outside hole in the plaster or render so inside or outside will need to go, you might get away with leaving one side (mostly) but the other and top and bottom have to go!!!! As I said I think it’s easier to patch plaster than render, but that’s just me, others might disagree.

 

p.s. The wooden cill will have to go as well. if you decide to remove it from outside (like @Onoff,s picture way back) you may get to leave the internal wooden cill in place.

Edited May 15, 2021 by joe90
Add

[Onoff]

You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.

 

Worst case inside, your re plastering looks a bodge. You could plasterboard the reveal instead or even line it with timber. 

 

Worst case if you remove stuff from outside, it leaks.

[zoothorn]

@joe90 I have a hardwood door sill, usual jewson door frame pack type (builder did a slate door sill as a gesture, so this was redundant from the extention build). Can be cut down obviously.. will this do-? looks similar'ish to my old window one, rotting away.

 

Internal sill I'm best keeping, if I can, as a base- then add a new bit ontop of it/ simplest.

 

 

[joe90]

10 hours ago, zoothorn said:

will this do-?

Yes but a UPVC window has drainage holes underneath so you must make sure any water/condensation can run out of these and down the outside of the cill otherwise it will sit there and rot the cill.

[zoothorn]

Hi chaps,

 

I'm really stuck on this. I'm back trying to get a plan on this damn window. But it's not straightforward. The reason: the deep position of my existing frame & the large ammount of render ontop; so to measuring what it is, isn't so easy.. let alone to remove all the render to dig it out, & then to replace it: a daunting prospect for me.
 

This 80's extention replicates the old cottage reveals, by setting them in 5" in you see. If it was set in shallow, say 1" like Onoff's eg, I could chip away &  easily find the old frame width, & not worry too much about replacing the render as it doesn't ammount to much.

But, here my render's 3/4" deep, ontop of the frame all the way around. So alot of render was applied in this 'outside reveal' to achieve a contoured set-in, 'old' look.

 

Thanks, zoot.
 

 

[joe90]

I think patching render is more difficult to disguise that patching plaster so I would see if you can get it out from the inside, how much plaster on the inside?, chisel a bit out and see the depth!!! The new window need not be as deep as the existing one, 1/2” is more than enough as long as the render covers it, packers and expanding foam then re plaster the inside reveal.?

 

edit, just read that I said this before!!!,! It either got to go in from the outside or inside and as said personally I find it easier to patch plaster than render and less likely to leak……..

Edited July 21, 2021 by joe90

[zoothorn]

@joe90 joe a few posts back, you said "I'd know which Id prefer to remove" ( referring to me asking whether the window is better replaced from the inside, or the outside: so you were referring specifically to the removal of either inside plaster, or outside render).

 

But I don't know what your answer was. Im trying to figure out now if in lieu of what I mention in the post before this, replacing the window from the inside makes more sense. I just cannot figure this job plan out at all here.

 

Were you thinking of the dust created by saying "..." this maybe? Thx zoot

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

@joe90 you replied with the very info I needed as I was posting the reply above!

 

Ok great.. at last I can move forward, so I'll get the damn thing out from the inside. Right so I'll redo my chip away to find the old frame width plaster side. All the consensus you see was saying its normal to be done form outside you see.. which meant I was stuck.

 

As its only a utility roomthe plastering can be average standard, it's fine in my book. The sill thing though, ie whether my door sill could be cut down & used  or not: I cant quite understand your rain run off point though, could you elaborate for me?

 

thanks zoot.

[joe90]

46 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I cant quite understand your rain run off point though, could you elaborate for me?

yes, UPVC frames are hollow and in case any rain/water/condensation enters that void they have drain holes in the bottom. That is why when you stick the UPVC cill you must only put silicone on the inside edge otherwise you trap the water in there. Will try to find a pic.

 

here you go…..https://www.everest.co.uk/doors/how-to-stop-water-coming-in-through-my-door/

Edited July 21, 2021 by joe90

[zoothorn]

30 minutes ago, joe90 said:

yes, UPVC frames are hollow and in case any rain/water/condensation enters that void they have drain holes in the bottom. That is why when you stick the UPVC cill you must only put silicone on the inside edge otherwise you trap the water in there. Will try to find a pic.

 

here you go…..https://www.everest.co.uk/doors/how-to-stop-water-coming-in-through-my-door/

Hi Joe, I'm still not on board. The sill I was referring to, I think I put a pic up, was a door threshold/ sill I have left over ( builder put a slate one in, so this is redundant).. a hardwood type.

 

I was wondering if this could be used, just cut down to a quarter its length or whatever it might be. So the holes thing.. Im not in board with. I think you said it could be used, if, the holes thing was suitable. As usual.. Im totally lost sorry.

 

zh

[zoothorn]

Hang about.. what does a new upvc window actually come with sill wise-? Might the sill be part of what I buy? If so Im stillnot on board with your info tho!

[joe90]

Your pic shows your existing window has a wooden cill on top of a concrete one (external) so you would buy a UPVC window and cill that would sit on top of the concrete one (which will stay in place), the cill comes separately and you need to fix (screw) these together but you need to only use silicone on the back edge of the window base. (I will draw you a diagram when your ready to instal it. Does that Make sense?

[zoothorn]

3 hours ago, joe90 said:

Your pic shows your existing window has a wooden cill on top of a concrete one (external) so you would buy a UPVC window and cill that would sit on top of the concrete one (which will stay in place), the cill comes separately and you need to fix (screw) these together but you need to only use silicone on the back edge of the window base. (I will draw you a diagram when your ready to instal it. Does that Make sense?

Hi Joe.. right, got it yes. So my idea of using my timber door cill.. had no merit at all then, was pointless?
 

Or would it still have merit, if it saved me money assuming I might be able to ask the Co if I could not have the upvc cill then. Or is this idea still pointless, because I either must have the upvc cill to do the job, &/ or it inherently fixes to the frame. I dont know Im still a bit lost tbh.

[PeterW]

Get the UPVC company to provide a stub cill. This is shorter than an ordinary cill and will sit on top of the concrete one. I would always try and use a cill, without it you need to get a window with what is called face drains which will add to the price. 
 

How big is the window…?

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

Get the UPVC company to provide a stub cill. This is shorter than an ordinary cill and will sit on top of the concrete one. I would always try and use a cill, without it you need to get a window with what is called face drains which will add to the price. 
 

How big is the window…?

Hi Peter.. ok will do. Yes was always gonna use a cill.. just have this nice piece of hardwood door frame 'cill' that just sits around you see. Less plastic better etc.. but ok will ditch this idea then.

 

600 x 1150 Peter. Thx zh