Hello! New build/adventure ahead... At design stage

[Ferdinand]

I think you have some excellent feedback above. I would add:

 

1 - I think you have too many small rooms. The library / study combo idea is excellent.

 

2 - I think there is too much circulation space - esp. the hall. See how the Edwardians or the Jacobeans did feature halls in their villa type houses - aiui normally they would get a dramatic staircase and some sort of reception or banquet space into something that size. If you want it dramatic I would move the bottom back from the door by some distance, and make it a Y staircase with 2 branches at the top. I would also make the staircase appreciably wider than a normal one -s ay 1.1-1.2m. The rake of the staircase also matters. You should be able to get a blow-em-away hall without quite such a sacrifice.

 

3 - Are you being conditioned by compressed London houseplan forms and small rooms? I had a delightful BH London-based visitor this week who commented that my 'orribly tight single bedroom was "medium sized". Different perceptions. Up until now I have thought of it as almost a box - room, with space for a bed, a bookshelf, a chest of drawers and a chair. Educational. Guess where London people who are used to smaller rooms will be sleeping now ?.

 

4 - Had some trouble with the font. I read them as "caveman's sports bar" and "petroom". ?

 

5 - When you revisit this the context in the plot - sun etc - will be the thing to take care adjusting. 

 

6 - Cautionary. Make sure that you have the rest of your life too. The purpose of a self-build is ultimately to spend your time living in it not building it. We lost my dad at 72 to a condition where the seeds were sown when he was in his 30s, whereas mum had been hoping for another decade together - did not happen. There is a lot to be said for the 'Sacrament of the Present Moment" idea (that version is from a Jesuit idea) - time gone does not come back. That's something I'm coming to reflect on having had months of my otherwise-plans lost in lockdown.

 

(I love the piccie of the dalmation - get a red setter on a floor like that and it will skating around like bambi on ice.)

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Bitpipe]

15 hours ago, AliG said:

I would avoid a basement unless it is the only way to get the floorspace that you need as they are expensive to build. If you can get the same size of house on the plot above ground then do that. Using the roof space on the other hand is cheaper space if you want a larger house, a nice alternative is high ceilings upstairs in some spaces.

 

Depends - my 120m2 basement cost £100k in 2015 so no more expensive, if not cheaper than the rest of the house structure. It is of passive standard and constructed from warrantied waterproof concrete. The electrics, plastering, joinery and decoration were additional but not excessive and there were economies of scale applied with the rest of the house.

 

We now have an amazing space that comprises two soundproof teenage TV rooms / dens, / music rooms (one has a drum kit and guitars, amps etc)  a gym and a large library / craft room. Plus a plant room for services, all of which frees up the rest of the living space.

 

Planners tend to turn something of a blind eye to basements (ours did anyway) as they don't impact massing or bulk or impact the street scene so if you're restricted in spacer those reasons they are an excellent option.

 

However there are a number of caveats that will drive the cost of a basement, mainly ground conditions (inc soil type, bearing capacity, water table levels etc) and the access you have to build them. 

 

A full footprint basement will also act as the foundation for the above ground structure so you're justified in removing that cost from the basement -  in which case I could knock off another £30k or so.

[Bitpipe]

23 hours ago, mjward said:

Hello lovely helpful people!

 

 

Welcome, you're going to do well here

 

 

23 hours ago, mjward said:

 

1) I've seen a range of £1500-3000/SQM mentioned for a self build guide. Approximately what % of that range is the structure itself?

 

Depends where you draw the line at structure. if you mean up to the point of first fix commencement - i.e. externals complete (i.e. weather tight) and all interior walls present, then I think we had spent about 50-60% of our budget by that stage? This excludes landscaping.

 

Challenge with the post first fix stage is that the original budget can inflate again as you're dealing with more discretionary items and things that you'll actually see - kitchens, bathrooms, floor finishes, stairs, lighting etc etc. We definitely upgraded some items like stairs and doors to get the final finish we wanted.

 

23 hours ago, mjward said:

4) is my assumption that it's harder to get planning permission for larger houses correct? I had originally designed the house over 4 storeys (Inc basement and loft) as thought smaller footprint would help but after scaring myself with basement damp/leak stories I've managed to redesign it across standard 2 storeys. Please find floor plan below 

 

Usually, although we increased our original approved footprint by 50% by adding a full size basement once we'd secured planning for the above ground portion. No issues at all with that from our LA.

 

You can always find a story to scare yourself with but I've seen a lot of basements and all are beautiful warm dry bright spaces that enhance the property no end. Like any other part of the house they need to be designed and built properly. if you have challenging ground or access then the cost may outweigh the benefit.

 

[Bozza]

2 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

I think you have some excellent feedback above. I would add:

 

1 - I think you have too many small rooms. The library / study combo idea is excellent.

 

2 - I think there is too much circulation space - esp. the hall. See how the Edwardians or the Jacobeans did feature halls in their villa type houses - aiui normally they would get a dramatic staircase and some sort of reception or banquet space into something that size. If you want it dramatic I would move the bottom back from the door by some distance, and make it a Y staircase with 2 branches at the top. I would also make the staircase appreciably wider than a normal one -s ay 1.1-1.2m. The rake of the staircase also matters. You should be able to get a blow-em-away hall without quite such a sacrifice.

 

3 - Are you being conditioned by compressed London houseplan forms and small rooms? I had a delightful BH London-based visitor this week who commented that my 'orribly tight single bedroom was "medium sized". Different perceptions. Up until now I have thought of it as almost a box - room, with space for a bed, a bookshelf, a chest of drawers and a chair. Educational. Guess where London people who are used to smaller rooms will be sleeping now ?.

 

4 - Had some trouble with the font. I read them as "caveman's sports bar" and "petroom". ?

 

5 - When you revisit this the context in the plot - sun etc - will be the thing to take care adjusting. 

 

6 - Cautionary. Make sure that you have the rest of your life too. The purpose of a self-build is ultimately to spend your time living in it not building it. We lost my dad at 72 to a condition where the seeds were sown when he was in his 30s, whereas mum had been hoping for another decade together - did not happen. There is a lot to be said for the 'Sacrament of the Present Moment" idea (that version is from a Jesuit idea) - time gone does not come back. That's something I'm coming to reflect on having had months of my otherwise-plans lost in lockdown.

 

(I love the piccie of the dalmation - get a red setter on a floor like that and it will skating around like bambi on ice.)

 

Ferdinand

 

 

I wonder if this website has had an uptake of visitors since COVID, whereby more people want to do the move into the country & self build thing.   If it has maybes there should be a main banner entitled “thinking about self building ? Click here”. To allow people to gain an overall view from us who’ve lost our cherry.  General steer as opposed to specific technical advice.   I’d vote for Ferdinand's paragraph 6 above to be the first post.  Wise words indeed.

 

Our motivation to self build, on turnkey basis, was the same realisation that life is too short, after my wife was unexpectedly diagnosed with a massive brain tumour (thankfully she’s fully recovered).

 

 

[mjward]

Didn't take me long...just had my first ??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️ moment on this site. Spent 20 mins writing out a full response, pressed enter by mistake and it just went to the first page and lost all my content. Doh!

 

The summary version:

 

1) staircase/hallway needs big asterix next to it. Not married to any design at this stage but simply want some open front door wow factor.

 

2) basement I love that idea and certainly makes more plots work for us. I'm just coming from Victorian property ownership (both have basements that love to flood/or get damp despite a fairly recent shoddy tanking #longstory). If I can get confidence in the waterproofing it is very appealing. 

 

3) above also covers another point re room sizes, thankfully but bizarrely we have managed to enjoy large Victorian detached room sizes but I find them too big for the most part

 

4) our catalyst for all this is actually closer to the personal stories you have shared. My wife's health has steadily deteriorated and we decided that we have done enough that I could quit the rat race and finally fulfil our long term dream to enjoy quality time together for as long as we have it. 

 

5) the % cost of the watertight structural part sounds good to me. Ballpark I think we have enough cash for the full build + 50% buffer but I'm naturally risk averse so this brings me further comfort

 

Hopefully with the updated floor plans below you can see how I've adjusted to your advice whilst also keeping a house design that we actually want. Couple of notes:

 

1) garage is mostly out of shot but I've made it 6.5m in depth..just checked and my car is 4.98m so good spot thanks!

 

2) toying with developing the roof space above the garage with dormers etc. If we did we turn the far right storage space into a hallway to this garage roof area 

 

3) conscious design is very much plot dependent but what I'm hoping to achieve here is a better understanding of what is the dream house, what do I really want. From there I hope to have a better idea of a small plot and go with basement works or if I indeed need a large area to accommodate the current designs.

 

 

[the_r_sole]

So, say you're in your back garden doing some mucky work and you're bursting for a pee, you have to come in, through a room, through another room into the hallway and into the only wc on the gf

..

[ProDave]

On 19/08/2020 at 18:58, mjward said:

 Would love a wood burner but in new build I'm going for ultra energy saving to keep utility bills down and that means no heat escaping where it shouldn't ??‍♂️

If you want a wood burner (and have a supply of wood) then fit one.

 

Fitted properly, with a room sealed stove (combustion air ducted direct from outside) there is no reason they should be a cause of general heat loss, and if like us you have ample free wood, that free heat will more than repay any small heat losses it may otherwise have.

 

In a well insulated house choice of stove is important and where it is fitted is probably more important.

[mjward]

44 minutes ago, the_r_sole said:

So, say you're in your back garden doing some mucky work and you're bursting for a pee, you have to come in, through a room, through another room into the hallway and into the only wc on the gf

..

Sorry it's not clearly identified in the plan but would have a toilet in the wet room. I need to figure out how to give it privacy as currently 3 doors go to that room

[mjward]

32 minutes ago, ProDave said:

If you want a wood burner (and have a supply of wood) then fit one.

 

Fitted properly, with a room sealed stove (combustion air ducted direct from outside) there is no reason they should be a cause of general heat loss, and if like us you have ample free wood, that free heat will more than repay any small heat losses it may otherwise have.

 

In a well insulated house choice of stove is important and where it is fitted is probably more important.

Sounds like I need to do more research. From what I've read thus far it strictly advises against when using MVHR systems 

[AliG]

You can get a room sealed wood burner. The issue you would have to watch for is they can generate too much heat in a very well insulated house.

 

As you don’t have a site in mind yet I would just keep to a room schedule and a list of wants. The specific plan of a house would be incredibly different plot to plot.

[ProDave]

14 minutes ago, mjward said:

Sounds like I need to do more research. From what I've read thus far it strictly advises against when using MVHR systems 

 

1 minute ago, AliG said:

You can get a room sealed wood burner. The issue you would have to watch for is they can generate too much heat in a very well insulated house.

 

As you don’t have a site in mind yet I would just keep to a room schedule and a list of wants. The specific plan of a house would be incredibly different plot to plot.

Room sealed solves any issues with the mvhr.

 

Mine is rated at 4.5kW and is in the largest downstairs room the kitchen / diner.  That room opens with double doors to the stairwell and the other side of the stairwell 2 more double doors to the living room.  All doors open and there is plenty of space to heat, and plenty of the heat will convect up the stairwell to the bedrooms.

 

a 5 hour burn will typically raise the whole house 5 degrees and will be some time before the heating comes on again. You would not want to burn it longer than that.

 

I think a mistake people make is put a stove in one relatively small room with nowhere else for the heat to go, and very quickly overheat that one room.  Ours does a good job of whole house heating.

 

If you were so inclined I bet you could use it as the only heating just lighting it whenever the temperature drops a bit.

 

For us it is an "indulgence" We normally keep the house at a constant 20 degrees with the UFH. But there are times when on a dark grey damp day, 20 degrees feels cold, so we light the stove and indulge in 25 degrees at no cost (wood is free). I would not choose to pay more to heat the house to indulgence levels.

[mjward]

Makes sense. Currently I'm thinking UFH ground floor room(s), heat pump and MVHR for the very reason you flag re overheating risks with well insulated new builds. I'm also exploring the Aircon aspect but that seems to be increasingly complex. Part of me thinks stick individual and independent AC unit's in the bedrooms which can be switched on when needed via remote. Then I read about the cooling MVHR, less effective but keeps in one unit. Then something about using the UFH to cool (although didn't get me head around that, think something about reverse heat pump). And then...I also think that I'm only even considering it because we have had a heat wave and should I bother doing anything intensive for just 2 weeks a year !

 

Will do more work on the stove. I think my desire stems from what you highlight doesn't work above ie be nice to have crackling fire in a small room. I suspect I might get my pyro desires fulfilled by part B which is an eventual outdoor kitchen/BBQ area once main house FULLY complete.

[ProDave]

Most ASHP's can be ran in cooling mode.  Ideally you want to couple them to "Fan Coil Units" mounted high up to dispense cold air.

[Ferdinand]

2 hours ago, the_r_sole said:

So, say you're in your back garden doing some mucky work and you're bursting for a pee, you have to come in, through a room, through another room into the hallway and into the only wc on the gf

..

 

The back garden has a bush in it. ?

[mjward]

47 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Most ASHP's can be ran in cooling mode.  Ideally you want to couple them to "Fan Coil Units" mounted high up to dispense cold air.

I'm completely new and bewildered by the modern approach to heating and ventilation but you definitely seem to know what you're talking about. Once I find the plot and doing planning in earnest I hope I can ping some questions you're way as across all the various things to think about this is the furthest out of my comfort zone 

[Ferdinand]

10 hours ago, mjward said:

I'm completely new and bewildered by the modern approach to heating and ventilation but you definitely seem to know what you're talking about. Once I find the plot and doing planning in earnest I hope I can ping some questions you're way as across all the various things to think about this is the furthest out of my comfort zone 

 

Hoping it may help, I would summarise the differences over say 10-20 years ago as:

 

1 - A well insulated house gets isolated from the outside environment more, as both heat (insulation up) and air (leakage down). The house itself becomes more stable. A tell tale was insights from quite some time ago (15-25 years?) when people started superinsulating that eg  "the temperature in the lounge only goes down half a degree in 24 hours when I turn all the heating off". The overheating in summer thing is the flipside of that that took some time to be appreciated. 

2 - That introduces big changes  behaviour and management - heating and cooling interventions are relatively smaller (and bills are less), but that also means that there is less scope to fix  overshoot and environmental factors with big interventions - when they happen (which is hopefully less frequently).

3 -  That in turns mean that control has to be almost designed in, which is why we have all these simulations, PHPP, solar projection models and all the rest.

4 - Two of the differences that we have noticed here over the last several years are a) that low autumn / spring sun is one area of concern, and b) summer overheating in really hot spells above 30C is another. Which is why we have all these wooden lattices around windows, and are thinking about  evolving heating systems - either with cooling built in or extra eg split aircon units - to also do cooling or overheating mitigation.

5 - Things like local microclimate and externals such as trees can become relevant.

6 - In my house which was done to perhaps some what better than regs at the time I have some of these issues that I am currently thinking about.

7 - My view is that these factors gradually become more important as spec moves from current building regs towards PH levels.

8 - I find that some of the approaches and tricks used by my-dad-the-architect or my attempts to renovate rentals to higher standards help to address this is my own (somewhat less analytical) manner seem useful, so I talk about those - even though a lot of it has been a combination of gut feel and conviction. Other people have looked at it through a lens of numbers and calculations.

9 - One of your needs is to reflect on this as far as you find necessary for your new house. Then over the next decade you get to test how right you were in your assessment. Action learning ?.

 

Hope that helps to try and express a summary in plain English.

 

Ferdinand

Edited August 21, 2020 by Ferdinand

[mjward]

appreciate that Ferdinand. The issue I face at this stage is simply my own ignorance/learning curve on the matter. There is a risk and I suspect this has materialized with others that after a mound of research you end up becoming fixated on the "what" and perhaps need regular resetting to the "why". The why for me is essentially a desire to have the lowest possible costs to running the house whilst also maintaining a comfortable temperature in both the depths of winter and the heights of summer.

 

So far it seems ASHP + MVHR + AC + PV is a solution (assuming the house is insulated to the effective levels). With PV paying for the AC in theory, the costs should be low for the whole system although with all things like this, the more there is the more that can go wrong which is why I'd prefer a simpler ASHP + MVHR (either if the cooling MVHR systems are effective or just with portable fans for those 2 weeks of the year). Again, plot will play a factor although with our desire for open fields/hills to look out on to I'm not anticipating a significant amount of tree cover at this stage.

[Ferdinand]

4 hours ago, mjward said:

appreciate that Ferdinand. The issue I face at this stage is simply my own ignorance/learning curve on the matter. There is a risk and I suspect this has materialized with others that after a mound of research you end up becoming fixated on the "what" and perhaps need regular resetting to the "why". The why for me is essentially a desire to have the lowest possible costs to running the house whilst also maintaining a comfortable temperature in both the depths of winter and the heights of summer.

 

So far it seems ASHP + MVHR + AC + PV is a solution (assuming the house is insulated to the effective levels). With PV paying for the AC in theory, the costs should be low for the whole system although with all things like this, the more there is the more that can go wrong which is why I'd prefer a simpler ASHP + MVHR (either if the cooling MVHR systems are effective or just with portable fans for those 2 weeks of the year). Again, plot will play a factor although with our desire for open fields/hills to look out on to I'm not anticipating a significant amount of tree cover at this stage.

 

Three things you could keep in mind.

 

1 - Keeping it simple. Emerge from complex analysis to the simplest solution.

2 - Build your cost models to cover capital, bills and a 10-15 year period of time. That is the way Passive House works - it only looks (roughly) for a 95% reduction not Zero Energy because the last 5% may be a nice badge but is not cost effective in emissions terms.

3 - Don't forget passive aspects like pergolas and trees.

 

Ferdinand

Edited August 21, 2020 by Ferdinand

[mjward]

Solid advice. Thanks

[mjward]

Just came back from the National Self Build Show in Swindon. Was excellent, amazing setup when you consider the environment we are in. Like a kid in a candy shop I'm now the owner of about 100 product brochures but I found seeing "things" first hand made such a massive difference to my thought/design process. For example, I knew we wanted an ICF build but now after seeing the products first hand, I see the significant benefits of woodcrete systems like Isofix. 

I was also impressed by the various MVHR systems and can see why so much planning for them is required before you lay your first brick. Bizarrely that's where I also noticed metal web joists for the first time and as long as the cost/strength is comparable to traditional joists I think it's a no brainer to include in my (eventual) build given the easy of routing cables/pipework.

 

Now I just need that darn plot!

[patp]

Having lived in various houses over the years the one thing I would class as "essential" is the orientation of the house. It beggars belief how many architects site a house on a sizeable plot and just face it to the road when it could be orientated to make the most of the South and West aspects. Our current old cottage and many, many other rural properties (with the flexibility of having decent sized plots) face South. It has no North facing windows at all. It is such a delight to live in! 

 

When our architect was siting our new bungalow on a very large plot with no restrictions he orientated it to be seen from the approach driveway. I pointed out to him that this would mean all rooms would be facing North or East with the hallway facing South and West! Of course we were able to spin it round but If we hadn't had our experience of previously living in houses with North and East facing windows we would not have thought to even mention it. Yes the wow factor is not so great when you drive up to the property but that is a small price to pay for the joy of having light flood into the house.

 

There is a property being built opposite us, with no site constrictions, that is nigh on a mansion. We met the architect when he was wandering around one day and commented on how lucky he was to have total freedom to orientate the house to the South, overlooking fields, and to the West, again overlooking fields. He gave us a puzzled look. The plans were submitted and approved with the house facing the road (West)! On the Southern aspect of the house he has designed a fully glazed garden room!

[mjward]

it's bizarre isn't it. I get people naturally erring towards the norm and making safe bets, but I would have thought the main reasons why properties are near/face the road harks back to a time when we didn't have SATNAVs, mobile phones, greater reach of utilities etc etc. It's all moot for me without a plot but the dream scenario is a plot large enough that we can plonk the house at the far end, i.e. as far away from the road as possible. Primarily from a noise perspective but also for security/privacy, I factor that the longer it takes to reach from the road the greater chance the security system will identify an intruder (but also the less visible/attractive it is to chancers as they drive past)

[AliG]

My architect often says that he prefers a site with some restrictions, I think it helps to define where to start. One of the things I thought an architect brought to our design was that he considered these things. Not just a preference for rooms facing south or west to get more light but also the relationship with the garden and the views as you move around the house. I would be quite disappointed if an architect was not taking these things into consideration considering how expensive they are.

 

The street I live on has large plots and houses, but a lot of the older houses have quite short driveways and garages set very close to the road. The conclusion that I have come to is that they site things near the road to reduce the cost of the driveway, ignoring the fact that the garages are so far from the house that no one uses them and a garage is not the prettiest vista to present to the street.

 

The house we knocked down faced south east at the back despite being on a massive plot. I really have no idea why, it didn't face the majority of the garden on the west side. TBF this is one of the worst aspects that I find of older houses, particularly pre the 1950s where they often have a very poor relationship with the garden.