Siberian larch vs oak

[ReX]

Hi,

 

For the new bespoke fences, the landscaper I want to use suggests to use oak but many websites talk about Siberian larch

What are the main differences? 

 

I am looking for a long lasting solution, requiring reduced maintenance and that doesn't fade or become grey / silver.

 

Thanks

 

 

[nod]

Oak needs a lot of looking after to stop it turning grey 

[Gone West]

8 hours ago, ReX said:

I am looking for a long lasting solution, requiring reduced maintenance and that doesn't fade or become grey / silver.

I have yet to find a type of timber that doesn't become grey over time. Even the flooring of my balcony which is ipe has slowly become grey although slower than the cedar cladding on the house.

[Ian]

9 hours ago, ReX said:

For the new bespoke fences, the landscaper I want to use suggests to use oak but many websites talk about Siberian larch

What are the main differences? 

The main difference is durability. The chart below is Trada's guide and is measured using timber posts in contact with the ground. Oak is classified as durable and Siberian larch somewhere between slight & moderate durability. 

If you keep your fencing at least 150mm off the ground and it's used in an area where its well ventilated it will last a lot longer than indicated in the table.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Ian

[ReX]

1 hour ago, PeterStarck said:

I have yet to find a type of timber that doesn't become grey over time. Even the flooring of my balcony which is ipe has slowly become grey although slower than the cedar cladding on the house.

 

Was the cedar untreated?

Did it stabilise as in this picture or it changed? By the way I really enjoyed your blog - very informative and cool house!

 

3 hours ago, nod said:

Oak needs a lot of looking after to stop it turning grey 

 

How often does it need to be stained?

 

22 minutes ago, Ian said:

The main difference is durability. The chart below is Trada's guide and is measured using timber posts in contact with the ground. Oak is classified as durable and Siberian larch somewhere between slight & moderate durability. 

If you keep your fencing at least 150mm off the ground and it's used in an area where its well ventilated it will last a lot longer than indicated in the table.

 

 

 

Okay, so it seem oak is more durable. Where is redwood in the chart?

Which wood would be classified as very durable?

[Ian]

3 minutes ago, ReX said:

Okay, so it seem oak is more durable. Where is redwood in the chart?

Which wood would be classified as very durable?

Untreated redwood is classified as 'slightly durable'.

 

The (untreated) timber species classified as very durable are the tropical hardwoods such as Iroko or Teak. An example of an environmentally friendly treated timber which is very durable is Accoya 

[nod]

7 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

I have yet to find a type of timber that doesn't become grey over time. Even the flooring of my balcony which is ipe has slowly become grey although slower than the cedar cladding on the house.

The timber guys will make all sorts of promises We’ve an oak pork and 

Iroko gates Both treated with Osmo Both had streaks of grey with in 18 months 

Quite a bit of work treating it and getting it back to original 

[Mr Punter]

16 minutes ago, nod said:

We’ve an oak pork and Iroko gates

 

A really great flavour and texture pairing there.

[Mr Punter]

6 hours ago, ReX said:

Which wood would be classified as very durable?

 

Iroko, Ipe, Teak.  Quite a lot of stuff that gets used in marine applications.

[Mr Punter]

6 hours ago, Ian said:

Siberian larch somewhere between slight & moderate durability. 

 

I though proper slow grown Siberian larch was classed as durable.

[Cpd]

18 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

I though proper slow grown Siberian larch was classed as durable.

It’s a tricky one as larch out of the ground in a vented environment lasts really well, but would not last long as a fence post as the bit below ground would rot quickly. It’s also what your supplier gives you as I Have seen a solid oak outdoor staircase rot badly as a lot of the oak used had sap wood in it, oak heart wood is very durable. 

[Gone West]

6 hours ago, ReX said:

Was the cedar untreated?

Did it stabilise as in this picture or it changed? By the way I really enjoyed your blog - very informative and cool house!

Thanks for the generous comment, glad you found the blog useful. The cedar was untreated and the colour in the picture is after it had stabilised. AFAIK silvering and durability aren't linked. Cedar cladding lasts for around seventy years without treatment and as I said even the ipe decking on my balcony has silvered.

[Gone West]

16 hours ago, ReX said:

I am looking for a long lasting solution, requiring reduced maintenance and that doesn't fade or become grey / silver.

We have used Jacksons Fencing in the past and they use a treatment which they guarantee for 25 years against rot. I have used Jacksons trellis at this house and it has been up for two years and has not changed colour at all, compared to the cedar cladding which started silvering before a year was up, and I'm impressed.

[Temp]

19 hours ago, ReX said:

I am looking for a long lasting solution, requiring reduced maintenance and that doesn't fade or become grey / silver.

 

We have a lot of oak outside, some treated some not.

 

Untreated oak (eg padock gates) went black before taking many years to go silver with green litchen spots.

[ReX]

So, the timber included in the quote is this redwood. I have seen it installed at our neighbors and it looks quite nice. But after 6 months it is difficult to judge how long it will last. So far the color is still as new. Not sure if it has to be stained to avoid color fading or the pressure treatment makes it unnecessary.

 

An alternative that will cost about 4.9 per meter is this one with composite battens. Has anyone experience with composite fences?

[Adam2]

My neighbour has been burning the face of his larch to turn it a dark brown - it's looking quite good but does take some time to do. Apparently then it will not go grey. Will dig up a pic

[ReX]

On 12/08/2020 at 13:13, Adam2 said:

My neighbour has been burning the face of his larch to turn it a dark brown - it's looking quite good but does take some time to do. Apparently then it will not go grey. Will dig up a pic

 

Very interested in looking at the result. Is it doable also with redwood?

By the way, between redwood and cedar, which one would last longer for fencing?

[GaryM]

Untreated Siberian larch will go silver grey, that's one of the major reasons we picked it for our cladding

[Adam2]

On 14/08/2020 at 13:27, ReX said:

Very interested in looking at the result.

Took a little time but here you go: