Planning try to amend my roof design!

[Martin88]

Hi everyone,

 

im new to this page, I’m after some advice.. I’m having a single storey wrap around extension built to the rear of my property, we live a in a semi detached house and the side nearest to my joined neighbour we are having a gable roof. They have a glass conservatory with a solid brick wall to one side (side facing us) - 200mm from the boundary, so based on our council’s planning document the solid wall means the 45 degree rule is taken from there middle point on that conservatory. We are well under this by about a metre and we are not going above 4mtr height. 

 

my neighbours daugther (who’s an architect) is getting into my planning officer to firstly try and refuse the extension and secondly try to change the gable to a hip roof so lessen the impact on their conservatory (suspect light and view)

 

my planning officer emailed me yesterday saying he is seriously thinking about making me change the roof design. 
 

 

im trying to challenge this under what grounds as I’m compiling with everything else. 
 

Any help is appreciated 

 

thanks 

 

Martin 
 

 

[Mr Punter]

Hi Martin

 

If you post the plans and elevations someone may be able to help.  Block out your personal details.  Is this being done as Permitted Development or a full planning application?

[Martin88]

Hi mate,

 

its under full planning permission. 

[nod]

As  Mr P states plans would be helpful 

In my experience planning objections like this usually only slow things down and cost you money With little or no benefit to the objector 

[Martin88]

My plans attached showing extent 

[joe90]

@Martin88 why are you against a hip roof ?

[Martin88]

1 minute ago, joe90 said:

@Martin88 why are you against a hip roof ?

Because I have to move my build over and it won’t be as good inside with the vaulted ceiling,

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

Do you already have planning permission or are you trying to get it? I think the latter but thought it would be worth checking. How long have the neighbours lived there with the conservatory? If it is longer than the right to light trigger period then you may have a problem if any part of the new build overshadows any window. Have you had a sun track plot done to show how the shadow moves as this will help you either prove your case or understand theirs? Neighbours have rights to light but not to the views.

 

PS is the plan North South (IE the new build faces due south) - if so then you can see their issue. 

PPS infringing a right to light (must meet the criteria) can be VERY expensive as they can sue you for damages to their utility and enjoyment!

[Martin88]

Hi mike, I’m trying to get planning, they have lived there for 20 years.

 

our gardens are north facing so there conservatory gets suns in the morning (which I’m on the other side) so I don’t block the sun, they will lose a bit of sun in July and August at night time when the sun is setting in the west. 
 

 

[Mr Punter]

The main eave looks to be under 3.0m.  If you have to, could you do a dotted line section with the neighbour's connie in the background comparing your proposal to a 6m deep extension 3m high flat roof, which I understand is the max allowable under PD?

 

I can understand why you have applied for this.  I agree it will be much nicer to have the vaulted part over the whole kitchen / dining area.

[Martin88]

The dim to eaves is circa 2385 and the dim to top of gable roof is 3375 

 

eaves dim to above Connie eaves as that’s 2550 

 

so if I have a flat roof, hip or gable it’s going to over shaddow  

[DevilDamo]

7 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

comparing your proposal to a 6m deep extension 3m high flat roof, which I understand is the max allowable under PD?

The issue with that is that if the neighbours are already kicking up a stink with a shallower depth extension, there is no way they would keep quiet for a 6m deep extension via the Prior Approval/Neighbour Consultation Scheme. It can help to have a PD fall back position but no such thing in the OP’s case.

[Martin88]

I’m not doing 6 mtr deep, it’s 4mtr deep 

[DevilDamo]

We aren’t saying you are but just trying to advise on a possible PD fall back position, which is possible with 3m but anything more would require neighbours to be consulted. Although on that note, you can’t have a wrap around extension under PD anyway.

Edited August 8, 2020 by DevilDamo

[Temp]

9 hours ago, Martin88 said:

my planning officer emailed me yesterday saying he is seriously thinking about making me change the roof design. 
 

 

I would wait and see. Don't rush to change it. 

 

There are conservatories and there are conservatories. Does their conservatory meet the building regs as a habitable room (allowing removal of the door between it and the living room)? or should/have they retained the door? If its not considered habitable then you might point out its not a habitable room just a greenhouse.

 

[Martin88]

They have full planning for it in 2003, I suspect they would of had full building control as they do everything By the book. 
 

there is a pair of doors into the living from to their conservatory  

[DevilDamo]

Just out of interest, what angle is your proposed roof?

[Martin88]

Between 14 / 15 degrees why? 

[the_r_sole]

Tbf, that's really going to shut down the neighbours conservatory - if I was them I'd probably be having a moan, not that I'd be expecting to actually stop the project...

Did you speak to them before submitting your application?

[Martin88]

Yeah I have Been round about 6 times talking them through the whole process and what I’m doing.. even paying my builder to block up the gap between my extension and their conservatory as they have built it 200mm off their boundary.

 

i think ive really been fair. 
 

they are also trying to screw me on the party wall notice! 
 

 

[the_r_sole]

2 minutes ago, Martin88 said:

Yeah I have Been round about 6 times talking them through the whole process and what I’m doing.. even paying my builder to block up the gap between my extension and their conservatory as they have built it 200mm off their boundary.

 

i think ive really been fair. 
 

they are also trying to screw me on the party wall notice! 
 

 

 

Unfortunately these are the problems living beside other people!

Sounds like you've tried to appease them as much as you can so you just have to let it run it's course now, switching to a hip roof is something that seems a problem now but in a couple of years you'll completely forget about it

[DevilDamo]

2 hours ago, Martin88 said:

Between 14 / 15 degrees why? 

Because with a 4m deep extension, it’s usually quite difficult to get a suitable pitch that would come below a first floor window cill. I’ve just drawn it up based on the dimensions shown and the rear angle is more like 13 degrees. Bear in mind your Velux’s will need flashing kits for a pitch lower than 15 degrees.

 

I assume the lean-to roof element on the right (when looking back at the house) will be steeper than that to the rear because the width of that side part is less than 4m but would meet the rear wall at the same height?

 

You also mentioned about if you ended up with a hipped roof on the left, you would need to move your build over. If the hipped roof detail would match that on the right, your left hand wall can remain where it is. To be honest, you could even pull it across closer to that boundary, allow for an eccentrically loaded foundations and introduce a small parapet for the hipped roof to run in to. This is obviously assuming and on the basis the Planning Officer requests a hipped roof over a lean-to/gable.

[Martin88]

By the time we finished with rafter and eaves we will be at 14 degree’s, we are taking the risk on the 1 degree with the roof lights. 
 

yes the right hand side will be 20 degrees ( looking at the house from the rear) I have a roof design already for the whole roof.

 

my point I’m trying to make is why is my planner thinking about making me change the roof design if I comply with all the planning documents from my council. 
 

Even if I have a flat, gable or hip, the ridge line will be above their roof.

[DevilDamo]

The overbearing impact can come in a variety of forms. A flat roof in my opinion has a more overbearing impact than a pitched roof but a lean-to/gable roof will have more of an overbearing impact than a hipped roof. The fact you’re having to go via formal Planning means you have no option but to comply with Planning policies and design guidance along with taking into account comments from third parties.

 

If the Planning Officer came back requesting a hipped roof and in order to overcome that, would you consider a slight reduction in the depth of the extension from 4m to 3750mm or 3500mm? You may have to agree to reach a compromise.

Edited August 9, 2020 by DevilDamo

[Onoff]

19 minutes ago, Martin88 said:

my point I’m trying to make is why is my planner thinking about making me change the roof design

 

He's not doing the neighbour's architect daughter is he? ?