Above ground soil pipe + neighbouring pipes

[Mace]

Hi all,

 

I have recently moved into a new property and am struggling to figure out what to do with my drainage system and have recieved a lot of conflicting information from various people.

 

This photo attached shows the current situation:

 

 

For context, I live in a basement flat with 1 other flat living above me.

 

The large black pipe at the front of the picture is their soil pipe.

 

My washing machine and kitchen sink go into the gully(?) and relevant pipe however I have my own drain system at the front of the house for all other stuff.

 

As you can see the pipe connects to next door, which is a story in itself in that apparently whilst building an extention, the contractors jumped over the fence and connected the drains on our now property to theirs (when they were previously not). This was unauthorised and without building control approval etc. They then didn't fix it. The council at the time, after this happened, said the piping could no longer be buried as next door would have insufficient fall and the drainage would be poor.

 

I have contacted a few people to try and fix this as obviously it looks not visually appealing, and as far as I am aware may be against building regs too. Some have told me to try and bury the pipe again involving expensive damp proofing etc, others have told me to concrete over the top, others have told me to deck over it, and others have told me to rearrange piping so not as obtrusive.

 

I'd really appreciate any advice, particularly around the best ways to arrange the piping or if anyone knows anything regarding the regs about waste pipes being unprotected above ground etc.

 

Cheers 

 

 

[ProDave]

What is missing from the photo is a a picture of e.g a door or an air brick in the wall so se can see your floor level in relation to the ground level.

 

You definitely want to fill that bit of a trench with some pre gravel pushed under the pipe to properly support it.

 

You don't have much in the way of options and I would suggest decking level with your internal floor level to cover it,

 

I don't understand the story of what the builders did re next door's extension but it does look a recent setup.  the owner at the time should have made more of a fuss at what next doors builders were doing.

[Roundtuit]

Hi.  A few observations;

If I'm understanding correctly, the direction of flow of appears to be from your property to next door, so presumably it's you and upstairs who'll have problems if the pipe is any deeper?  Any idea what the arrangement was before the new work?

 

Underground pipe (brown) is not UV-stable, so will need to be covered with something to prevent degradation over time.

 

The 'gully' doesn't look like a proper gulley; it's not trapped, so there's nothing to stop smells right outside your window. Is it also taking rainwater from that downpipe?

 

Assuming the arrangement has to stay pretty much as is height-wise, I think I'd move it back tight to the wall, put a proper trap in, and box it in with small brick wall capped with slabs.

[Temp]

The story doesn't make a lot of sense and understanding it is probably key to the best fix. All I can think is they broke or blocked the original pipe between you and couldn't be bothered to fix correctly so rigged this mess up...but it doesn't really explain the issue with falls.

 

Where were your drains connected before? Could you reinstate your original connection and let the neighbours sort out whatever happens in their garden as a result? Or use rights or easements in your deeds to force them to fix the blockage or break in your original pipe?

 

Is this pipe or the original owned by the water Co since the "recent" rule changes? If so perhaps they should be fixing it and chasing the neighbour?

 

 

[Temp]

Do you have any other stacks?

 

What about neighbours the other side of you? 

[Thedreamer]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

What is missing from the photo is a a picture of e.g a door or an air brick in the wall so se can see your floor level in relation to the ground level.

 

 

 

I think that is the air brick in the middle? It's not to clear from the photo but prehaps the soil level is a bit to high also.

 

[Mace]

Thanks all for the replies I really appreciate it.

 

I have attached another picture I have on my phone of the pipe which shows the air brick a bit clearer.

 

Sorry if the context was not clear I didn't want to bore anyone with the backstory and my knowledge of it is purely from hearsay + some copies of correspondence between the parties at the time. But the full story from what I know:

 

1. Neighbouring property had an extension being carried out.

2. For some reason builders hopped the wall and altered the drainage, reasons unclear.

3. The building company agreed eventually after a year or so to remedy the works, but the owner of our now flat became seriously ill and it never was completed.

 

The emails say:

 

"We now have a situation where the new drainage is actually above the garden level of 208 and if the drain is replaced at the original level it will not be possible to connect into the drain run beneath 206, which has been raised to improve the fall."

 

I have looked at the extension plans for next door at the time this was ongoing and it looks like they proposed to raise the ground level which I assume contributed to the problems with their pipes and the fall? I have attached some pics below from their planning application.

 

 This is the floorplan before their extension:

 

And this is after:

 

 

and thanks for the advice re decking - definitely something I'm considering.

[Mace]

3 hours ago, Roundtuit said:

Hi.  A few observations;

If I'm understanding correctly, the direction of flow of appears to be from your property to next door, so presumably it's you and upstairs who'll have problems if the pipe is any deeper?  Any idea what the arrangement was before the new work?

 

Underground pipe (brown) is not UV-stable, so will need to be covered with something to prevent degradation over time.

 

The 'gully' doesn't look like a proper gulley; it's not trapped, so there's nothing to stop smells right outside your window. Is it also taking rainwater from that downpipe?

 

Assuming the arrangement has to stay pretty much as is height-wise, I think I'd move it back tight to the wall, put a proper trap in, and box it in with small brick wall capped with slabs.

 

Not entirely sure about the direction of flow but yes I assume you're correct. And yes it would be us who would have problems.

 

And yes the smells are a minor issue especially from upstairs. Not sure about the rainwater but yes I think so.

 

Yes that's another option I thought as there's presumably no reason the piping has to pop out so much, and should be quite cheap to just rearrange piping and a proper gulley as you say.

 

[Mace]

3 hours ago, Temp said:

The story doesn't make a lot of sense and understanding it is probably key to the best fix. All I can think is they broke or blocked the original pipe between you and couldn't be bothered to fix correctly so rigged this mess up...but it doesn't really explain the issue with falls.

 

Where were your drains connected before? Could you reinstate your original connection and let the neighbours sort out whatever happens in their garden as a result? Or use rights or easements in your deeds to force them to fix the blockage or break in your original pipe?

 

Is this pipe or the original owned by the water Co since the "recent" rule changes? If so perhaps they should be fixing it and chasing the neighbour?

 

 

Sorry its not clear I've posted again to hopefully clarify what I know.

 

I'm not sure - it could be feasible but it would leave the neighbours with unconnected sewerage leaking into our garden.

 

Also unsure about the water co - it's thames water so I'll do some research.

 

Thanks!

[Mace]

3 hours ago, Temp said:

Do you have any other stacks?

 

What about neighbours the other side of you? 

I don't know the answer to either of those sorry.

[Roundtuit]

Thanks for the clarification, that makes more sense. If there's no chance of getting the builder back so sort out their bodge job, I'd consider dropping the pipe (and ground level) back down to a level that suits you and keeps the air brick clear, and put in a small pump chamber in the corner to get the waste back up to meet next doors new pipework.

[ProDave]

It sounds like some dodgy dealings during the neigbours extension.  They have in effect built over a shared drain, something which is very much frowned upon now.

 

If they raised the pipe to improve the fall you are pretty much stuck with it now.  Decking level with your internal floor level should cover it, and fit a proper gulley trap where the sink waste goes.

 

The other issue is the long sweeping rest bend at the bottom of the main stack.  It is correct to have a rest bend there, but those brown underground pipes are not UV sensitive.  That really wants replacing with a brown or black one, but I have never seen an "above ground" rest bend before.  Perhaps painting it black might make it look better?

[Mace]

1 hour ago, Roundtuit said:

Thanks for the clarification, that makes more sense. If there's no chance of getting the builder back so sort out their bodge job, I'd consider dropping the pipe (and ground level) back down to a level that suits you and keeps the air brick clear, and put in a small pump chamber in the corner to get the waste back up to meet next doors new pipework.

Thanks - hadn't thought of a pump chamber i'll do some research.

[Mace]

53 minutes ago, ProDave said:

It sounds like some dodgy dealings during the neigbours extension.  They have in effect built over a shared drain, something which is very much frowned upon now.

 

If they raised the pipe to improve the fall you are pretty much stuck with it now.  Decking level with your internal floor level should cover it, and fit a proper gulley trap where the sink waste goes.

 

The other issue is the long sweeping rest bend at the bottom of the main stack.  It is correct to have a rest bend there, but those brown underground pipes are not UV sensitive.  That really wants replacing with a brown or black one, but I have never seen an "above ground" rest bend before.  Perhaps painting it black might make it look better?

 

Thanks for this - yes does sound a bit odd.

 

I hadn't thought much of the sweeping rest bend as being an issue - is it a problem to have it above ground? 

[joe90]

But why should you pay to sort someone else’s cock up. I would get building regulations involved.

[Temp]

In summary... There would have been a fall from 208 to 204 that was "shared" between 208 and 206. Then along comes a builder and steals all the fall for 206 leaving none for 208.

 

I would check your title deeds and the one for 206 to see what they say about the drains. The title can be obtained from the land registry web site for just a few £ and sent to you by email.

 

[Temp]

Check here to see who owned the original sewer pipe..

 

https://www.ofwat.gov.uk/nonhouseholds/supply-and-standards/responsibility-supply-pipes/

[Mace]

22 minutes ago, joe90 said:

But why should you pay to sort someone else’s cock up. I would get building regulations involved.

I think any power building control have is long passed unfortunately as this happened years ago, but I could be wrong.

[ProDave]

What did the survey say when you bought the flat?  and how much did you negotiate off the price to correct the issues?

[Mace]

6 minutes ago, ProDave said:

What did the survey say when you bought the flat?  and how much did you negotiate off the price to correct the issues?

It didn't say anything about it and I have to admit I didn't know it shouldn't be as it is.

[dpmiller]

Is that maybe a back inlet gully with the grating removed? In which case it *should* be trapped, as long as the rodding insert hasn't been removed from it...

[ProDave]

Talking of rodding, an extra tee and a rodding eye would be a good addition.

[Nickfromwales]

11 hours ago, Roundtuit said:

 

The 'gully' doesn't look like a proper gulley; it's not trapped, so there's nothing to stop smells right outside your window. Is it also taking rainwater from that downpipe?

That is trapped. Will have a removable ‘flap’ at 45 degrees inside for maintenance.