UFH manifold in attic?

[osmononame]

Hi, looking to see if anyone has managed to install their ufh manifold in their attic? My build is going to be over 3 floors - ground, first and second (attic). I have a 'plant' room in the attic which is going to house the MVHR, DHW tank, buffer tank for UFH. I am thinking that if I can get the manifolds there for the UFH it will make things a bit easier downstairs. If its not advisable for the manifold to be 2 floors away maybe I could get away with a manifold in the ground floor and then in the attic for the first and second floors? In all honesty I dont think the UFH will be required much at all for the first and second floor but I'd rather have it installed just in case.

[nod]

I would seriously considered if it is worth UFH the first and second floors We have UF ground floor 

Radiators on the first and have used the radiators since moving in 18 months ago 

Temperature seems consistent with the ground floor 

 

[DavidFrancis]

@Nod - "have used" or "have NOT used"?

[vivienz]

Ours needs a bit of extra heat upstairs in winter. Two of the rooms upstairs aren't ensuite and so can't benefit from heated towel rails etc, and they got quite chilly. One is my office/work room and I needed an oil filled radiatior on in there in the absence of completed UFH.

[osmononame]

I have ufh on both first and second floors in my current house. This was built 12 years ago to not the latest/best standards and even now I don't use the ufh much on the second floor - other than the cold days in winter. That being said i dont want to go back to radiators so have made the decision to go with ufh on all floors as the cost is pretty minimal. 

[epsilonGreedy]

I am considering a similar option. In my case it would be simpler to locate the manifold in an upstairs airing cupboard and then route the UFH pipes down to the ground floor only UFH. I wonder if noise from circulation pumps might we worse upstairs leading to a disturbed night's sleep?

[nod]

1 hour ago, DavidFrancis said:

@Nod - "have used" or "have NOT used"?

We just used lots of insulation 

Insulated board to outside walls and 600 mil of life insulation 

Even around Christmas time the bedrooms and bathrooms are 15 -16

[Gone West]

4 hours ago, nod said:

Even around Christmas time the bedrooms and bathrooms are 15 -16

If our bedroom ever dropped below 21C I'd be toast.

[CC45]

Q a long drop down and up for the UFH pipe (20m all up?) = reduced lengths of loops in the floor slab (max 80m) = more valves needed = more cost.

[nod]

13 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

If our bedroom ever dropped below 21C I'd be toast.

Wow

we NEVER Have our living space over 18 

21 is hot 

 

[Gone West]

Just now, nod said:

Wow

we NEVER Have our living space over 18 

21 is hot 

 

Downstairs is kept at 23C  and upstairs is usually 22C. Wendy would be quite happy if it was 25C all the time but we came to a compromise.

[nod]

4 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

Downstairs is kept at 23C  and upstairs is usually 22C. Wendy would be quite happy if it was 25C all the time but we came to a compromise.

Stifling

[osmononame]

We have settled on a manifold for GF on GF and a manifold for FF and SF on the SF. 

 

Currently we have spec'ed aluminium trays from below on the FF and SF but I have read on here about a biscuit mix - I know the advantages with the thermal mass of such a system but I often see the cost of it cited as an advantage over alu trays but taking aside the advantages of the thermal mass to one side wouldn't the labour for the install of the battens between the joists and then laying the pipe and then the pug add to more than the spreader plates? 

[MikeBel]

Hi

Browsing through and found that I have same problem/situation as you encountered: GF pug/biscuit mix with the FF and SF using aluminium spreaders. Supplier suggestion: manifold with 6 loops on the GF, 4 loops on FF and 2 loops loft conversion. Did you go ahead with the above configuration? Did you use manifolds only on GF and loft (going down for the FF)? Any suggestions appreciated. Same as you, I would prefer only 2 manifolds (1 on the GF and second in the loft as there is plenty of room under the eaves...). It should not be any problem with airlocks and the length of the FF loops will be max 75m.  Cherry on the cake: it costs less...

Or should I just listen to the supplier and get 3 manifolds/pumps, etc? I know they need to sell, but not if I can find a better/easier/cheaper way.

Any comments?

[osmononame]

I ended up going with a manifold on each floor. I still think from SF going to FF would have worked but wasn't brave enough to make that leap! I am running the Salus self balancing actuators and the pumps at the manifold on their slowest settings (so there would have been some margin had I put everything on the SF). 

 

In hindsight I would probably skip the ufh in the SF altogether as it's simply not been cold enough to need it on. Even now with minus temp outside the study on the SF is showing 23 deg C (it's set to 16 deg).

 

P.s. I am not sure who is designing your system but ours was overcomplicated with certain/most rooms needing two runs due to the length of the runs but once we got started I decided on one longer run per room but switched to the self balancing actuators (I had to go to another supplier as the one that designed the system didn't do the self balancing ones) and it's worked well with no issues.

[Gus Potter]

On 13/05/2020 at 09:27, osmononame said:

Hi, looking to see if anyone has managed to install their ufh manifold in their attic? My build is going to be over 3 floors - ground, first and second (attic). I have a 'plant' room in the attic which is going to house the MVHR, DHW tank, buffer tank for UFH. I am thinking that if I can get the manifolds there for the UFH it will make things a bit easier downstairs. If its not advisable for the manifold to be 2 floors away maybe I could get away with a manifold in the ground floor and then in the attic for the first and second floors? In all honesty I dont think the UFH will be required much at all for the first and second floor but I'd rather have it installed just in case.

Keep it simple stupid.

 

Have designed some houses with the plant rooms in the attic and it works fine. I would recommend that for future proofing you design the plant room in the attic so it  can carry some good point loads from say a couple of really heavy cylinders.. say 500  litres each plus the self weight of the tanks. That is about 1.3 -1.5 tonnes working load.  A lot of the stuff you see on BH is actually cutting edge stuff.. ASHP etc, the theory is explained in depth by the some members..

 

To do this easily (furure proofing) you can use steel beams or just position your load bearing walls.. easier to do. Also work your way down and put the manifolds in say the  towel cupboard, laundry room if a big house.. you have good crisp bed sheets and so on, even put the manifolds in the bathrooms.. makes them super cosy! It's a luxery but let's just enjoy a bit of that!

 

To afford you future flexibility separate the floors into zones. Put a manifold on each floor supplied by pipework of a decent bore. It won't cost you that much extra but you may well be glad later if this is your forever home.

 

Yes, we have a wide range of heating controls available at the moment, smart controls and so on but who knows what will be available in the future. Best to run some good large bore pipes from the attic to the floors to give a plenty flow at a low pump head. In the future you can restrict the flow if need be but much more difficult to increase if the bore of the pipes is too small layout is restrictive. The laws of hydraulics won't change.

 I