Few questions on new build

[Jaredh]

good evening everyone

 

My wife and I are looking to buy a plot of land that has outline planning (expired but currently going through renewal) and we were looking into all of our options before finally settling on our decision. We have a few questions that we can’t seem to find an answer on and help from our LA doesn’t seem to be easy to get!

 

The outline planning is for a four bedroom detached house. On one side of the house are the rear gardens of nearby houses and the other side an unadopted road. We would like to be able to extend the size of the (planned) house by 0.8m width and 0.3 depth. However, doing so would take us close to our boundary on the road side. 
 

So first question: are we allowed to move the house as close to that boundary as we like or are there regulations stipulating how close we may be?

 

second question: the house must have space for 3 cars (I understand?). We are also told there must be a turning area within the driveway area. Is there stipulated turning circle dimensions or area size that we must abide by? There is currently enough room but due to a manhole cover to the rear of the property we have to move the house forward one meter to comply with the 3 meter rule. 
 

help is greatly appreciated - we seem to be going in circles!

 

thanks a lot

[nod]

I can answer one of your questioned 

our plans showed a tuning circle for us and one for our neighbour 

We both decided against and simply didn’t bother

BC don’t bother about planning issues 

Once passed planners are not interested unless someone complains 

[Jeremy Harris]

Our experience with the "cars must always enter an leave in forward gear" planning condition was that it was checked, in addition to us having to pay the fee and get it discharged.  The highways officer paid us a visit to check the access after we'd built it, although he was mainly concerned that we'd put the access in the right place.   Not sure what would happen if you had this as a planning condition, as we did, and didn't discharge it.  I suspect it might cause some problems if it ever came up when trying to sell the house, assuming that it ever came to light.

[SuperJohnG]

31 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said:

Our experience with the "cars must always enter an leave in forward gear" planning condition was that it was checked, in addition to us having to pay the fee and get it discharged.  The highways officer paid us a visit to check the access after we'd built it, although he was mainly concerned that we'd put the access in the right place.   Not sure what would happen if you had this as a planning condition, as we did, and didn't discharge it.  I suspect it might cause some problems if it ever came up when trying to sell the house, assuming that it ever came to light.

It's a bit of a silly rule. Most common houses have single car driveways where thats not possible.

 

It's like Aberdeen, you have to reverse park in all offshore sector car parks otherwise you get your knuckles wrapped by the QHSE guys...someone made the rule up and suggests its safer and everyone has agreed without question. But in reality it's the same risk in my opinion

[DevilDamo]

You mentioned the original Outline Planning has expired. Is that because the Reserved Matters application was not submitted and approved within the timeframe set?

 

Are you also saying you are going through the process of submitting another Outline application? If this is the case and Outline consent had already been granted in principle, why not proceed with the submission of a Full application? Or were you looking at selling the plot with Outline Planning in place?

 

Each LPA would or ‘should’ have its own

policy guidelines along with supplementary guidance documents. Those would stipulate rules and guidance relating to the citing of properties, amenity/privacy/daylight and parking requirements.

 

If you choose to seek the Council’s Pre-application advice, you would more than likely get the answers to your questions. That is of course assuming your LPA offer that service as some around my way do not.

 

Btw, what is your Local Planning Authority?

[Jeremy Harris]

8 hours ago, SuperJohnG said:

It's a bit of a silly rule. Most common houses have single car driveways where thats not possible.

 

It's like Aberdeen, you have to reverse park in all offshore sector car parks otherwise you get your knuckles wrapped by the QHSE guys...someone made the rule up and suggests its safer and everyone has agreed without question. But in reality it's the same risk in my opinion

 

 

I agree.  In practice I always reverse into our drive from the lane, as it's less faff, but I'm supposed to drive in forwards and do a 3 point turn, according to highways, and had to use up a lot of the plot area in making enough space to do this.  The daft thing is that the lane we live on is single track and sees maybe 3 or 4 cars a day, at less than 20mph because of the narrow width.

[Jaredh]

1 minute ago, DevilDamo said:

You mentioned the original Outline Planning has expired. Is that because the Reserved Matters application was not submitted and approved within the timeframe set?

 

Are you also saying you are going through the process of submitting another Outline application? If this is the case and Outline consent had already been granted in principle, why not proceed with the submission of a Full application? Or were you looking at selling the plot with Outline Planning in place?

 

Each LPA would or ‘should’ have its own

policy guidelines along with supplementary guidance documents. Those would stipulate rules and guidance relating to the citing of properties, amenity/privacy/daylight and parking requirements.

 

If you choose to seek the Council’s Pre-application advice, you would more than likely get the answers to your questions. That is of course assuming your LPA offer that service as some around my way do not.

 

Btw, what is your Local Planning Authority?

Thanks for your reply. So, the outline planning was submitted presumably with a view to selling the plot however that did not happen in the timeframe required. Earlier this year the owner submitted an application to renew the planning but it’s only very recently we have begun looking at buying the land - we understand this most recent application is quite far in to the process, probably only held up due to working restrictions currently in place. 
 

we are looking to buy and build on the plot for our family home. We’ve received a quote to draw the plans for full planning however that isn’t something we want to do until we know exactly what our limits are and what we can do with the plot (it’s quite a lot of money for us to decide against buying). Being able to increase the size of the proposed house is basically the deciding factor at this moment. 
 

I will check our LPA (Denbighshire) for the guidance you’ve suggested - unfortunately I couldn’t get an answer from them yesterday which could clearly clarify what I need to know. 
 

 

[Ferdinand]

The version of Manual for Streets that came out in the 1990s included research that suggested that reversing out onto relatively major roads was less of a problem than had been believed previously.

 

Practically, I would take a careful view based on the road you will be living in. Can you reverse out with an acceptable level of safety?

 

If you are happy with that, you will probably need to comply with the policy - at least theoretically, whatever that is. The policy may have an exception clause in it, though you may need to find that yourself. I would perhaps try and talk or email to the Planner directly on that point, phrased to let them explain exactly what it means.

 

Alternatively, could you extend upwards (or downwards) as a Plan B?

 

Ferdinand

Edited May 5, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Jaredh]

Thanks Ferdinand. The road to access the property is an unadopted road, with an entrance at each end, which provides access to one other property and a bowling green so it’s very safe to reverse out. 
 

regarding building upwards - I guess it’s a matter of balancing the cost against value. It’s a consideration I will look into though. 

[Ralph]

12 hours ago, Jaredh said:

We are also told there must be a turning area within the driveway area.

We've had to put in a turning point for fire engines. "Fire and rescue service vehicles should not have to reverse more than 20m from the end of an access road. Where any dead-end route is more than 20m long, turning facilities should be provided. This can be a turning circle or a hammerhead" As you have an access at each end that should not be a problem for you.

[Jaredh]

thanks for all of the replies. 
 

does anyone know of the rules on building close to a boundary please? Are we able to build close to the roadside boundary or what the regulated distance is (if any)?

[DevilDamo]

Your LPA does have many SPG’s, which will probably provide the answers to your questions...

 

https://www.denbighshire.gov.uk/en/resident/planning-and-building-regulations/local-development-plan/ldp-spg/ldp-supplementary-planning-guidance.aspx

 

In particular, they have SPG’s relating to Parking Requirements In New Developments, Residential Development and Residential Development Design Guide.

[Jaredh]

19 minutes ago, DevilDamo said:

Your LPA does have many SPG’s, which will probably provide the answers to your questions...

 

https://www.denbighshire.gov.uk/en/resident/planning-and-building-regulations/local-development-plan/ldp-spg/ldp-supplementary-planning-guidance.aspx

 

In particular, they have SPG’s relating to Parking Requirements In New Developments, Residential Development and Residential Development Design Guide.

Thank you. I have looked at that but it only discusses parking spaces as far as I can see, rather than turning area within residential land. I think there are a few factors here which are making it quite (albeit not totally) unusual so I’m the exact scenario is not completely covered.  

[Ferdinand]

4 minutes ago, Jaredh said:

Thank you. I have looked at that but it only discusses parking spaces as far as I can see, rather than turning area within residential land. I think there are a few factors here which are making it quite (albeit not totally) unusual so I’m the exact scenario is not completely covered.  

 

This may well be affected by the unadopted road and what rights the Council has to apply full planning policy on unadopted / private roads, which may be different to other roads. I recall a debate about this wrt PP for I think dormer windows in bungalows on private roads.

 

Suspect that to look into that might take you down a rabbit hole that would be painfully longwinded to investigate, and it may depend on what access rights are retained by members of the public in their vehicles, and volume of traffic, and the effect on highway safety or whatever is the basis underlying the Council policy.

 

[ProDave]

There was a case here of an unadopted road serving 1 houses. When a third was applied for, they made it a condition that they update the detail and visibility splays where that unadopted road met the public highway.

[colin7777]

Our approved planning application did not raise any questions as to any turning circle. We once built will be living on an un-adopted private road and have no way to drive in and out in forward gear.

The highways had no comment as it is a private road, all they commented on was the access from private road to public highway as to if it was suitable for an additional 2 cars capacity.

No guarantee that this is the same view in all planning departments.

[Jeremy Harris]

I think it depends very much on whether or not there is a planning condition imposed, as if there is, then it would seem to be potentially risky to ignore it.  For example, we had a 5 planning conditions imposed, with a total of 6 of them relating specifically to the drive and access.  Amongst those conditions was this one:

 

Quote

8. Before the access hereby approved is first brought into use a property consolidated and surfaced turning
space for vehicles shall be constructed in accordance with details to be submitted to and approved, in
writing, by the Local Planning Authority. Such turning space shall be kept clear of obstruction at all times.
 
Reason: In the interests of highway safety.

 

Policy: G2

 

I had this discharged by sending a drawing to the planning officer, and the highways officer came out later to check that what we had constructed matched what was on the drawing.