Critique my final design (almost?) ready for Planning Permission...

[AliG]

I think you said something about the kitchen being bright before and tbh I didn’t want to rain on your parade.

 

My kitchen has 10 windows and 2 French doors yet the actual area where the cabinets are has no windows where light falls directly on it and you nearly always need the lights on in that area. If I had known I would have had another window that hit that area specifically.

 

Light tends not to fall more than a couple of metres from a window. The problem is it is hard to have lots of windows where your cabinets are as they interfere with the wall space a kitchen needs.

 

It will be fine with the lights on but if you want natural light you’ll have to move the kitchen.
 

I notice the top of the windows in the sunroom are very low. According to my architect it is seeing the sky through a window that tends to make it feel lighter. I would take the windows higher up towards the ceiling. Windows normally go up to within a few hundred mm of the ceiling if not all the way.

Edited May 31, 2020 by AliG

[puntloos]

Please do rain on all of my parades.

 

(Although it is actually my birthday today.. let me have this one OK? )

 

Seriously though, one house we looked at a year or 2 ago now looked like this:

 

Which had no natural light other than from the windows you're seeing. floorplan here - and we found it acceptable.

 

(Huh taking a closer look it is actually fairly reminiscent of my current kitchen design)

Looks like the picture was taken with a flash or at least all lights on ..

 

At some point you have to accept that not everything can be sun-facing  - I enjoy an occasional lunch while in the actual sun, but that's catered for in my 'garden room' design. The kitchen work I'll need add'l lights anyway.. and as you say, any place that doesn't have a window can be used for storage..

 

[AliG]

It is a combination of things. All the lights are on there and that kitchen has lots of very reflective surfaces whereas you have shown yours with a dark floor and darker matt surfaces.

 

Sitting at your table you will be in the light. That’s how ours is.

[puntloos]

1 hour ago, AliG said:

It is a combination of things. All the lights are on there and that kitchen has lots of very reflective surfaces whereas you have shown yours with a dark floor and darker matt surfaces.

 

Sitting at your table you will be in the light. That’s how ours is.

 

Any picture you're willing to share? ?

 

But yeah like I said, I prefer the "sitting" spaces to be bright over the "working" spaces.

[AliG]

Forgot. Happy birthday.

Now I am in I wish there was a window above the mid height cabinets to light the kitchen

 

[puntloos]

4 minutes ago, AliG said:

Forgot. Happy birthday.

Now I am in I wish there was a window above the mid height cabinets to light the kitchen

 

 

Nice - well done! You got the hob very much in the corner of the island.. intentional? Or just turned out that way? I think Dan said it's nice to have 30cm on the sides, also as per https://www.houseplanshelper.com/kitchen-dimensions.html#cooking_surface_clearance - but while 'some' space to work on is good, I don't think you need a ton on both sides. 

 

Yeah of course not a ton of light from outside but properly lighted it doesn't seem problematic..

 

Extra window> I must admit I'm tempted to add more windows too, for example in front of my sink (not on the island) I could put a window...

Edited May 31, 2020 by puntloos

[AliG]

Yeah. That looks like a dark winter day while we were building. As you say fine with the lights.

 

The hob is around 100mm from the edge which is plenty. I have seen them closer which would be too much. Also it has one of those long areas on the right hand side which hardly ever gets used. TBH who ever actually uses all 5 positions on a big hob. I actually almost changed to a square one but the rectangular one looks better on the island.

 

I wasn’t really commenting on positions of hob etc as I felt you were just getting the building right and there will probably be a kitchen plan later.

 

I do agree with some of the comments though. Our fridge is nearest the table so you can get drinks and condiments. The freezer is at the other side. When you think about it they are neatly always together yet it would be pretty rare  you would move stuff between them so they do to have to be next to each other. Also the fridge and the ovens are opposite the spaces at the top and bottom of the island so there is nothing behind you

 

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by AliG

[puntloos]

@AliG as you can see from my latest render I've already moved the fridge right next to the table ? (not the best render to show..) 

 

And indeed, I don't strongly intend to perfect the kitchen myself, but as before, just trying to allow as many options as possible when that stage is reached. 

 

For example I can't quite work out (their docs are terrible) how much space I need for a full Quooker Fusion + CUBE installation (boiling, hot, chilled, sparkly) into the island, so if I land on a certain size of island only to find I have to eat into other dimensions (e.g. the prep area) to achieve the rest..

 

Surprising you don't actually use the place next to the hob, where do you prep?

 

4 hours ago, puntloos said:

 

[AliG]

We prep stuff in the space between the hob and the sink on the island.

 

Actually looking at the close up there, we had a sink very close to the edge of the island in our last house. That was a much bigger problem than the hob as people constantly splashed water out of it and it ran down the side of the island. I move it in a bit in our current place.

 

We have a 7L Quooker plus a waste disposal in a standard 600mm cupboard and plenty of space left over.

 

From Quooker, it looks like they would both fit in a 600mm cupboard but not leave much room over. The CUBE is big. We have a similar system in the office at work. What I have noticed is that the cupboard gets very warm and it melts stuff left on the worktop above.

 

• The Quooker PRO3 tank requires 480mm of height space and is 150mm in diameter. The tank is a cylinder.
• The Quooker PRO7 and Combi 2.2 tanks require 550mm of height space and are 200mm in diameter. They are both cylinders.
• The CUBE system requires a 430mm in height, 230mm in width, 440mm in depth. 65mm extra space either on front or side is needed for the CO2 cylinders. The tank is square.
• If you have specified a Flex tap please note we require at least 500mm deep x 200mm wide space below the tap position under the worktop in the cupboard. This is required to allow the weight that operates the Flex hose to move freely up and down. If it becomes restricted it will not operate as intended.

 

We have one stainless steel sink and a white Silestone sink in the island to match the worktop. When it gets replaced they will both be stainless steel as the Silestone sink is just a pain to keep clean. Do you really want such a large sink? I actually measured a kitchen shelf and made sure the single bowl was big enough to put a shelf or pan in the bottom to clean, but other than that we have two dishwashers which my wife says was one of the best ideas that I have ever had.

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by AliG

[puntloos]

5 minutes ago, AliG said:

We prep stuff in the space between the hob and the sink on the island.

 

Ah right, I somehow thought you said you didn't use the space. - ah "Also it has one of those long areas on the right hand side which hardly ever gets used." - I think you are referring to the hob having one of those strip heaters maybe?

 

5 minutes ago, AliG said:

Actually looking at the close up there, we had a sink very close to the edge of the island in our last house. That was a much bigger problem than the hob as people constantly splashed water out of it and it ran down the side of the island. I move it in a bit in our current place.

That's an interesting point, I didn't think of that.

 

Indeed the hob, I think someone here said it might cause some safety issues with pan handles sticking into the walkway, but that's equally true for the front.. 

5 minutes ago, AliG said:

 

We have a 7L Quooker plus a waste disposal in a standard 600mm cupboard and plenty of space left over.

 

What's standard? 600 deep?, how wide? 

 

5 minutes ago, AliG said:

 

From Quooker, it looks like they would both fit in a 600mm cupboard but not leave much room over. The CUBE is big. We have a similar system in the office at work. What I have noticed is that the cupboard gets very warm and it melts stuff left on the worktop above.

Yeah they do say drill ventilation holes etc.. so indeed maybe my currently specced 500mm wide area for the quooker sink could work.. but getting a bit more "anti splash" area might be better use of my limited space than the 30cm I put next to the hob... (also perhaps good to have a spot to temporarily put glasses on)

 

5 minutes ago, AliG said:

 

• The Quooker PRO3 tank requires 480mm of height space and is 150mm in diameter. The tank is a cylinder.
• The Quooker PRO7 and Combi 2.2 tanks require 550mm of height space and are 200mm in diameter. They are both cylinders.
• The CUBE system requires a 430mm in height, 230mm in width, 440mm in depth. 65mm extra space either on front or side is needed for the CO2 cylinders. The tank is square.
• If you have specified a Flex tap please note we require at least 500mm deep x 200mm wide space below the tap position under the worktop in the cupboard. This is required to allow the weight that operates the Flex hose to move freely up and down. If it becomes restricted it will not operate as intended.

 

 

Yeah also the 'weight' thing.. would a cube be in the way etc...

[AliG]

4 minutes ago, puntloos said:

What's standard? 600 deep?, how wide? 

 

Sorry just meant a standard single cupboard 600mm wide.

 

Basically these things just sit on the bottom of the cupboard and you don't move them unless you have to. Sounds like the CUBE needs access to change the CO2 canisters. From the description above including a space in front for the canister it will basically take up one side of a cupboard. The main thing to watch will be where the sink waste goes as it probably won't clear the top of the Quooker. These are details the kitchen company should be aware of.

 

I guess you are thinking of putting the Quooker in the island. Our is on the other sink on the thinking that you would keep tea cups in the wall cupboard above the sink. Also you use it to fill up large pots to boil stuff which is easier at a larger sink. I can see you wanting it on the island for cold water though. My family don't like sparkling water so we just use the tap. We had an American fridge freezer before and the water was no colder than tap water so it seemed pointless. Also visitors loved playing with the ice machine which used to really annoy me as I am on the hook if it breaks. Now we have a freezer where the ice falls into a tray inside and you scoop it out. Nothing for visitors/children to see and want to play with.

[puntloos]

3 hours ago, AliG said:

 

Sorry just meant a standard single cupboard 600mm wide.

 

Basically these things just sit on the bottom of the cupboard and you don't move them unless you have to. Sounds like the CUBE needs access to change the CO2 canisters. From the description above including a space in front for the canister it will basically take up one side of a cupboard. The main thing to watch will be where the sink waste goes as it probably won't clear the top of the Quooker. These are details the kitchen company should be aware of.

 

I guess you are thinking of putting the Quooker in the island. Our is on the other sink on the thinking that you would keep tea cups in the wall cupboard above the sink. Also you use it to fill up large pots to boil stuff which is easier at a larger sink. I can see you wanting it on the island for cold water though. My family don't like sparkling water so we just use the tap. We had an American fridge freezer before and the water was no colder than tap water so it seemed pointless. Also visitors loved playing with the ice machine which used to really annoy me as I am on the hook if it breaks. Now we have a freezer where the ice falls into a tray inside and you scoop it out. Nothing for visitors/children to see and want to play with.

 

Def interesting 'science' to think through how you would use devices matched with reality.

The quooker would serve so many purposes (and perhaps we should use it only for its intended, which is 'unusual water').. but the idea is:

- Rinsing stuff pre-prep

- Easily and quickly getting a glass of water (chilled for me, chilled+sparkly for the wife)

  -> in this case you're right, having glasses near it would be good, although in my render the large cupboard next to the fridge would have the glasses, so pretty close..

- Easily refilling the water (easier on the island than deeper into the kitchen

- Boiling water for tea 

  -> true that it would be handy to have the leaves and cups etc near it

- Boiling water for pasta/rice

  -> sliiightly better on the island I suppose, but not a big diff.

 

Would you use the quooker to rinse, or does it feel like it would break under too much use a normal tap could do? 

[AliG]

 

9 hours ago, puntloos said:

Would you use the quooker to rinse, or does it feel like it would break under too much use a normal tap could do? 

 

I just rinse stuff under the cold water tap, you will still have normal water available, and might well leave it running whilst peeling vegetables. You wouldn't want to use water from a Quooker for this, it only holds 2L of chilled water. You could use it but it would seem pretty wasteful.

[puntloos]

3 hours ago, AliG said:

 

 

I just rinse stuff under the cold water tap, you will still have normal water available, and might well leave it running whilst peeling vegetables. You wouldn't want to use water from a Quooker for this, it only holds 2L of chilled water. You could use it but it would seem pretty wasteful.

Ah I assumed it would have a direct-from-mains function too. Good to know, I suppose I'd have to put a second tap on the island then?

 

Here's a new render of the kitchen. As you might imagine I haven't thought the color scheme through too much yet. 

 

 

Layout:
 

 

[AliG]

The window looks nice there. Depends a bit on the outlook.

 

You get various Quooker taps. You can have a stand alone one with a separate tap that has normal hot and cold water or you can have a Fusion that has both Quooker water and normal hot and cold water available at the same tap.

[puntloos]

3 hours ago, AliG said:

The window looks nice there. Depends a bit on the outlook.

 

The outlook is not great, 1m of space, then the border (a green hedge on a garage)

 

3 hours ago, AliG said:

You get various Quooker taps. You can have a stand alone one with a separate tap that has normal hot and cold water or you can have a Fusion that has both Quooker water and normal hot and cold water available at the same tap.

 

Of course if there are no downsides (other than price...) I would prefer the fanciest one.. but is it solid enough to be used as really the primary tap in the entire kitchen?

[AliG]

They seem pretty robust and you can replace the tap without touching the rest of it.

 

We had one with no problems for 5 years in our last house.

 

The main problem I think is scale in hard water areas.

 

Including CUBE you are looking at around £2k+VAT. It is very hard to justify the cost on rational grounds versus a kettle, but I know a lot of people with them and they all love them.

[puntloos]

A quick update - as you might've seen before, I like to use the free(ish) tool Focusky since you can tell a story, or let people browse around the design by themselves. 

 

For our Architect and Neighbours I've prepared the following:

http://focusky.com/uqqn/nldz

It contrasts the architect's latest design and my own updates, and there's a bunch of renders

 

A flythrough is here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VePB0LlI72zITLYDAQEPcUYv5Jkwdsem (the player seems wonky, but you can download the file to view it)

 

Just the floorplans attached.

 

[Dan F]

1 hour ago, puntloos said:

A flythrough is here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VePB0LlI72zITLYDAQEPcUYv5Jkwdsem (the player seems wonky, but you can download the file to view it)

 

What tool did you put this together with?

[puntloos]

7 minutes ago, Dan Feist said:

 

What tool did you put this together with?

 

Chief architect x11

[puntloos]

Sorry it's actually Chief Architect Premier X12 already - time flies huh. 

Slight update to the video here while I'm at it. (not worth a rewatch unless you're bored, the neighbours now have a front door, a few bushes in their actual place)

 

[puntloos]

A few 'final' versions later....  (for @Mr Punter too)

 

Puntloos-F.pdf

[Ferdinand]

Another Final Design? 

 

YAY !

 

 

[puntloos]

Not really 

Just now, Ferdinand said:

Another Final Design? 

 

YAY !

 

 

 

Heh, not really a deeply meaningful update, so no need to reopen the discussion unless you have shocking insights you forgot last time

But indeed a surprising amount of 'last minute' minor things mainly because we've been quite perfectionist about it

[Ferdinand]