Planning our en-suite.

[ProDave]

Finally starting on the last room in the main house, the en-suite bathroom.  This is a shower room done as a wet room. the wet room former is already in.

 

Planning the run of "units" that run the width of the room.  To the right is the back to wall toilet with concealed cistern.  To the left is a boxed in cupboard that contains the manifold for the upstairs UFH.  The middle bit is to be open with just a worktop spanning it with a counter top basin on top, under the velux window.

 

To the far left is the shower and there will be a glass screen between it and these units.

 

In the best Blue Peter tradition, here is the cardboard mockup MK1:

 

 

The immediate question is what height for the worktop?  I set this mockuo to 800mm the same as the vanity unit in the main bathroom but with a counter top basin (yes that cardboard box) it feels too high.  So is it a case of choose the basin first, then set the worktop height so the top of the basin is about 800mm?

 

You will note this is at the edge of the room under the sloping roof.  I have mocked up an upstand at the back of the worktopso it does not taper down to nothing.  Depending on the basin chosen, the taps might come out of the wall through this upstand, or be mounted through the worktop.

 

I guess we can't progress until we have been and bought the basin and taps as that's the one bit we don't yet have.

 

Wanting the space under the basin left open makes it awkward for me as some of the pipes might end up on show.  but there will be a back to the recess (that grey bit of board) as the hot and cold pipes come up through the floor close to the wall, so a service void needs creating there.  I will make it deep enough for a 40mm waste, so the only bit I will have to get "presentable" will be the trap.  I presume I do that in chrome or similar?

[Jeremy Harris]

Love the use of CAD (Cardboard Aided Design) . . .

 

I made a mistake and set the worktop in our downstairs WC too high (made the error of using 150mm kitchen kick boards when bathroom units use 120mm).  30mm may not sound much, but it's surprisingly awkward when compared to the same units we have in the bathrooms that are set at their standard height.  Our bathrooms are 880mm from floor to top of worktop, and the WC one is 910mm.  I'd suggest that as low as 850mm might be OK, not sure about going down as low as 800mm, although having the basin on top, rather than inset may make a big difference (our basins are all inset, so only stand around 30mm to or so above the worktop).  Our bathrooms and WC all use the same pattern of standard built-in bathroom furniture units, that seemed to be exactly the same size as the ones I fitted to our old house, about 15 years ago.

[ProDave]

I mooted the idea of using pre made units. It would be easier I am sure.  However because of the sloping ceiling it would mean using kitchen base units, not bathroom units as they would not be deep enough (or would stand a long way out from the wall)

 

So to go down the pre made unit route, the challenge would be to find a 900mm wide unit for the right hand side where the WC pan would fit in the middle of that, and a 900mm wide unit for the left hand side with a pair of opening doors.  Because of the UFH manifold I would remove the back panel from that unit.

 

I suspect the difficult one would be the right hand unit. Any ideas on that?

 

Oh boy I am looking forward to visiting the bathroom showrooms......

 

The 800mm I quoted.  When doing the main bathroom we had a similar discussion about building some units, then out of the blue SWMBO came home with a pre made vanity unit that houses the basin on top and the back to wall cistern and WC.  Putting that together with the small kick board that came with it, gives a basin rim height of 820mm and we have got used to that.

 

 

P.S.  The CAD method is necessary, SWMBO cannot visualise it from drawings, it has to be seen full size as it will be.

[Onoff]

825mm to top of basin in the new bathroom.

 

860mm to the top of the freebie vanity I put in in the upstairs ensuite. To the right is a cheapo extension to it I threw together out of old salvaged melamine and a bit of kitchen worktop. I broke one glass door so fabbed another from perspex suitably made opaque by wet and dry.

 

 

Both heights are very useable to me and I'm 6'4".

 

This will one day be gutted as in walls, floor, ceiling renewed. Literally I'll be going back to the studs/joists. Really though need to sort the roof out before that!

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

TBH, it's not always easier to use ready made units.  Our downstairs WC has the soil stack box in the corner, so I had to position slim bathroom units off the wall, and then ended up having to cut and shut bits to get them to fit and to get the toilet pan waste pipe to fit.  Probably took me longer to mess around with the thing than it would to have just framed up a custom unit and fitted some off-the-shelf doors to it. 

[ProDave]

Take 2.  It needs to be more "open"

 

 

So the left hand bit will be boxed in around the UFH manifold to just enough depth to cover it and removable hatch to access it. (the velux cardboard box)

 

The remainder of the open space will be a plasterboarded and painted wall with a service void behind it. That will be 70mm deep which should be enough to hide the waste pipe which will go off to the right to the service pipe in the corner.

 

The right hand bit will be fully boxed in to house the cistern with just an access trap in the side to get to it.

 

The look she is wanting is like this:

 

 

With all the details at the back I doubt I will get it looking like a free standing bit of furniture. But the main thing is just to make it open like that.

 

At least I don't have to mess about with doors and making door frames for them.

 

[ProDave]

Basin purchased today.

 

Visited several bathroom showrooms that all seemed to have too many digits on the price tag.

 

Ended up in B&Q who had this priced at £48.  But they had a sale on so that was 20% off, and another 10% off for signing up for their club card brought it down to £34.56

 

 

That does not look a great deal different to the others we had seen with the decimal point one too many places to the right.

 

Just got to order the tap, waste and trap now (B&Q did not have any tall taps nor chrome traps)

 

The mockup now has the worktop height lowered a bit and the worktop made a bit deeper. That seems to work okay there with plenty of clearance from the wall / ceiling.

[Jeremy Harris]

TBH, I doubt anyone could tell that it's a budget basin from B&Q.  When it comes to ceramic bathroom stuff it's hard to see the difference between some of the budget stuff and some of the high end stuff.  I've never been sure where the money goes on the high end stuff, either, as I can't see how a £200 ceramic basin can possibly cost more to manufacture than a £50 one.

[ProDave]

Getting further.

 

That's the main framework for the base unit built. There will be a slatted shelf along the bottom and the wood will be painted.  Worktop all across the top. the bit behind the WC will be boxed in with Multipanel to match the walls.  An access hatch will be provided at the right to access the WC cistern and at the rear left to access the UFH manifold.

 

It is being built to look a bit like a free standing bit of furniture but it will be very much fixed in place.

 

Latest CAD model for the next "design review"

 

[Moonshine]

19 minutes ago, ProDave said:

It is being built to look a bit like a free standing bit of furniture but it will be very much fixed in place.

 

Are those adjustable feet (if so where from)?

 

I am about to make this bespoke cabinet and the adjustable feet would come in very useful to get it square in the room.

[ProDave]

There will only be the one central adjustable foot. The rest of it is supported by screwing to the wall.

 

That one foot is made up from bits in one of the various "useful items" hoards I have,  Just a foot from something, screwing into an aluminium spacer, and a handy bracket to attach that spacer to the underside of the timber.

[bassanclan]

No reason why you couldn't use standard kitchen cabinet feet hidden behind a plinth

 

https://www.toolstation.com/hafele-kitchen-unit-leg-set/p61932

[Moonshine]

5 minutes ago, bassanclan said:

No reason why you couldn't use standard kitchen cabinet feet hidden behind a plinth

 

https://www.toolstation.com/hafele-kitchen-unit-leg-set/p61932

 

good shout but too tall for what i want, though another source may has suitable.

[ProDave]

So when I had the plasterboard just tacked to the wall, and the base unit in place, I marked the exact locations where the basin waste and tap feeds needed to come out.  I then drilled the holes, marked those through to the wall behind, removed the plasterboard and did the plumbing for the basin.

 

 

This is the access left for the UFH manifold.  By turning the pump round a bit I have kept the depth needed to a minimum.  this will be covered by a trap door in the left of the base unit.

 

 

The WC cistern is mounted sideways and will be accessed through a trap door in the right hand end of the base unit.  the front panel (behind the WC pan) will be solid.

 

 

So now it's time to scrub up the floor and apply the tanking membrane ready for the floor tiling.

[Onoff]

You'll remove the wc before you tank the floor I assume or does it sit raised up slightly?

[ProDave]

30 minutes ago, Onoff said:

You'll remove the wc before you tank the floor I assume or does it sit raised up slightly?

Yes of course.  I just put it there to test the plumbing would work.  It is currently sat on an offcut of plasterboard to simulate the additional height it will be raised by the time the floor is tiled.

 

I am trying to get the worktop height as low as possible due to having a countertop basin. I have set the cistern as low as I can, i.e. the top part of the flush pipe is shortened to it's limit.  So the underside of the worktop will be about 10mm above the top of the cistern just allowing room to remove the access hatch.  will be using a thin worktop to keep the top surface of the worktop as low as possible.

 

I would have liked it slightly lower but that would mean seeking out a cistern that took up less space.

[Russell griffiths]

On 05/03/2020 at 13:30, Moonshine said:

 

good shout but too tall for what i want, though another source may has suitable.

Those cabinet legs come in two pieces, you just yank the tube bit out and attack it with a hacksaw then push it back in. 

You can chop it down to about 75mm. 

[Onoff]

On 05/03/2020 at 13:30, Moonshine said:

 

good shout but too tall for what i want, though another source may has suitable.

 

You can get tubular ones you could cut with a pipe cutter.

[ProDave]

So a bit more progress.

 

Room cleared out, floor cleaned and tanked ready for the tiler on Monday

 

 

I was short of tanking membrane.  But I had enough. Just.  It was a bit of a patchwork at the far end that is down beside the WC, but there was just enough, not a scrap left over.

 

 

And the plumbing for the shower has been completed and leak tested

 

[ProDave]

The tiles are now down and grouted

 

 

 

And I have been doing some more CAD work, cutting a template for the first sheet of multipanel which should arrive on Wednesday

 

 

I have been keeping several large flat sheets of cardboard for literally years, specifically for this purpose.

[ProDave]

Well after an "interlude" caused by Covid-19, 8 weeks after ordering it, my sheets of multipanel arrived and I could resume working on this.

 

It's nearing completion now.  A few photo's

 

 

 

 

Which brings me on to the next question.  I need to find a glass shower screen.  It will go just about where the multipanel joint is in that last photograph to protect the stuff on or under the wall unit from getting wet when showering.  It needs to hinge to the left when not showering to give proper access to the unit.  And it is under a sloping ceiling so an absolute maximum height of 1800mm

 

I have not found one yet.

 

I have found 1500mm high hinged shower screens but they are really meant for going on top of a bath, and I don't think 1500mm is high enough.

 

I have found fixed 1800mm high panels, but that is no good it must hinge.

 

I have found 1800mm high pivot doors but that needs a frame above and below which I don't want.

 

All I want is an 1800mm high by about 800 or 900mm glass panel that fixes to the wall with a couple of hinges and will swing side to side.  Am I really into the realms of buying the hinges and getting the local glass supplier to supply the sheet of glass with appropriate holes in it?

[PeterW]

28 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Am I really into the realms of buying the hinges and getting the local glass supplier to supply the sheet of glass with appropriate holes in it?

Yes and you’ll find it’s cheaper. Decent hinges can be had for £15 each, then just a panel the size you want. 

[ProDave]

So what thickness glass for say an 1800 high by 900 wide panel?  6mm or 8mm?

 

2 hinges or 3?

 

[PeterW]

8 or 10mm 

 

2 hinges put less stress on the glass 

[ProDave]

So this is what we ended up doing. 

 

I gave up on custom made screens, the glass companies locally are still shut and from looking at this previously I had difficulty finding hinges that hinge both ways.

 

So we bought a pair of the cheap off the shelf short shower screens from a well known orange DIY shop.  The ones we chose had good reviews for the build and appearance but lousy reviews for the pathetic excuse for a sealing strip along the bottom.  But we are not using that sealing strip (that is indeed pathetic) so it did not matter,

 

So here is the finished result:

 

 

Although they are low, almost no water goes over the top, and not much under the gap at the bottom either.

 

They enclose you while showering to keep the rest of the room dry, and when not showering they both fold flat against the wall leaving the (not very big) room open.

 

The search is now on for something similar for the other bathroom, except we want a matching pair of screens, one 800-900mm and the other 300mm.  It is the 300mm hinged screen I can't seem to find.