Planning permission for an end terrace side plot

[Jordan1]

Hi All,

has anyone had any experience with submitting planning permission for an end terrace? Had the planning officer round last week to run through our proposal and he said it was an awkward plot; putting another 3 bed house on the end would make sense and looks right from street side (already a single story garage in the footprint of the proposal) but the main detractor was  that as the rear gardens of the neighbours all look onto one another building up another story above the garage may be over bearing to the adjoining garden.

I'm planning to push back on this due to a number of reasons;

-Privacy; all the back gardens look onto one another from the outset and if it comes to it we could use obscured glass on the top floor

- Light doesn't seem to be a problem

-View; the garden within the closest proximity cant actually see the open air view from the window, can only be seen when in the garden. Additionally he said a extension ( half house = 3m) would probably be allowed but the difference between this and allowing the new build really would seem negligible.

Looking at other submissions in the area new infill houses and extensions have been built although not in the exact same situation apart from one up the road which was given planning permission due to an administrative error! The refusal was printed on a piece on paper which said PLANNING PERMISSION GRANTED and so had no conditions which is an interesting case.

Does anyone have any advice on what to emphasise in the application? Pictures attached, thanks for any help given 

[ProDave]

It looks a better prospect from the front than it does from the back.

 

First thing that springs to mind is parking.  Both houses need off road parking, how do you propose to fit that in?

 

You could design a house where all bedrooms looked out to the front or side and only say a landing and a bathroom looked out to the back with obscured glass to counter the overlooking argument.

 

The new house really won't have much garden to the rear, so design it almost to ignore that and concentrate on it utilising the side garden as it's main garden area.

 

In many ways this is a similar plot to a previous semi detached house we had.  I did for some time think about trying to get planning for a second house, but it would have meant both having a tiny garden, having a very awkward shared parking area, and the new house in any case would have been very small.  In the end we decided a better use of the plot was an extension that almost doubled the size of the house, but kept it as one house.

[Jordan1]

Thanks for your reply, that's interesting. The plan is to rent out this house once renovated so I probably wouldn't go for an extension.  The majority of the street doesn't have off road parking and the min garden size of 55m per house can be met ( assuming side garden is counted although not ideal, it really is quite a big plot). I completely agree with your suggestions for privacy, the main obstacle the planning officer who cam round seemed to point to was a  second floor could be over bearing on the neighbouring property. Considering the new build would still be lower than the neighbours house and the suggested plan would pull the house footprint back away from the neighbours in line with the current house I believe there is a case to push back? Seems a mostly subjective objection

[Ferdinand]

Have you a plan (from largest scale on Council Map website would do).

 

Ferdinand

 

[bassanclan]

You could start by examining the building work you could do under permitted development 

[Jordan1]

16 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

Have you a plan (from largest scale on Council Map website would do).

 

Ferdinand

 

Thanks for your reply. Couldn't easily find a plan but the total plots about 25mx 23m so roughly ~290m²  in total, existing house is around 6m and the blue box where I've drawn the proposed footprint is  ~ 6m. Its the proximity to the neighbours that seems to be why it may bee seen as overbearing but as I pointed to in the post the proposed building would be at a lower level and a step back from the existing footprint of the garage

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Jordan1

[Jordan1]

11 hours ago, bassanclan said:

You could start by examining the building work you could do under permitted development 

Thanks bassanclan.The planning officer said theres no doubt wed get an extension (up to half the size of the house), but didn't like the idea of a single story dwelling as surrounding is all 2 story. Where should I look for info on PD?

[Ferdinand]

I think you have a decent chance of a modest detached house or a bungalow on that. if you are talking about rentals a small 2 bed bungalow would be a superb proposition .. you would get 5-10 year tenants no problem from parents of a local family.

 

I would start from making it symmetrical across the corner with the neighbour to give a consistent appearance.

 

You can perhaps have part of the garden on the corner as your private amenity space since you can just grow the thick hedge to 2m with no need for approvals.

 

Driveways and access will be the challenge, with the proximity to the junction. The distance to the notional apex of the junction corner is likely to be 10-15m, and that car you can see will be 4 or 5m, so you may have a fighting chance of getting a new drive the far side.

 

Many oldsters will want a low maintenance patio garden, which may help.

 

Needs very careful planning, but could work.

 

I would also try and buy a hunk of their corner side garden from the neighbour before breaking cover, which would help.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Jordan1]

Thanks for your help Ferdinand. By careful planning would you recommend using a planning consultant? I've looked at supporting statements for similar schemes in the area to get a feel for the line to follow in pushing back against the obstacles of the proposition, I just fear that if a 2 story development is over bearing and a single story dwelling wouldn't fit in we'd be stuck with no options atall

[Ferdinand]

I’ll try and come back with come some comments on this over the weekend.

 

Ferdinand

[Mike]

I'd agree with the planning officer that you should go 2-storey to fit in with the streetscape.

 

An alternative to obscured glazing on the back would be to keep the windows above eye-level. That avoids the argument that opening the window will still cause overlooking, plus the possibility that the obscured glass could be easily replaced later. You can potentially compensate for that with a window on the site wall.

 

I'd also go directly for a full planning application, rather than outline, to narrow the scope for objections. I'm not convinced that you need a planning consultant as the likely problems and possible solutions are fairly apparent. If your council has a design guide / applicable policy then that may give you a good steer, as would finding and documenting local precedents.

[Ferdinand]

Further comments.

 

You can certainly do it yourself - judgement call for you depending on how difficult you think it will be.

 

A planning consultant will know local policies (if you choose the right one - look for experience of similar projects in your LA area). Any PC worth their salt should know most of the members of the Department by name, their strengths and weaknesses, and how to work on each individual. That can be a useful boost for you, but still the more you get familiar with it all the better use you can make of your consultants.

 

I would draw up your ideas first, with a list of clear questions written down, so you can use your free first half-one hour chat well. Do not shrink from asking eg "what is your best judgement from our conversation of the chance of getting this is first time, and if we had to Appeal".

 

Give the PC time between contact and meeting to have a decent look and think.

 

You need to know that each App is considered on its merits (in theory), so arguments from "that one did this" can be dismissed, but sometimes you will get away with it. Unpredictable, perhaps partly dependent on if anyone objects. I do not see the "on street parking by others" having much weight, and you will need to meet the policy. You can argue things like good bus services or close to town to argue perhaps one space instead of 2.

 

Once you have PP you could of course sell the plot. You may well be able to get better returns from different housing stock if rental is the aim.

 

If you are over a parking increase line, you could design in a large bedroom and split it later if that helped.

 

In these circs you could do something like a traditional shared drive.

 

The Council will be concerned that it fits in - so be relatively conservative. Although OTOH it is traditional to put a landmark house at a corner, which this is.

 

All the best.

 

F

[Jordan1]

Hi All, 

 

apologies for taking so long to post an update I only recently followed up the visit from the planning officer wit an email. In my email I tried to review the concerns of the officer in relation to the local planning documents and highlight there didn't seem to be any technical breaches of the requirements and received the response below:

 

''Whilst I appreciate you have made an effort to address policy/SPD guidance, there are still significant concerns regarding the proposals relationship with the surrounding dwellings. Given the already close proximity of these dwellings, further development will only act to intensify this and be of further detriment to the amenity presently enjoyed by residents.

 

If you are planning on proceeding with an application, it may be worth providing scaled drawings of the proposed elevations/block plan/floor plan/garden in relation to the neighbouring dwellings so that a more detailed assessment can be made and more definitive answer given prior to submission.

 

I must advise that I think it’s unlikely that the proposal will be supported for the reasons given previously and above and that whilst a proposal may ‘meet the requirements’ of the development plan, this does not necessarily mean it will be a successful application. ''

 

I guess the next step is to start talking to local planning consultants for their opinion on the application. I appreciate it may be a 'how long is a piece of string' question, but does anyone know how much these applications generally cost and if there's anywhere to find recommended PCs in Exeter?

 

Thanks

 

Jordan

 

 

 

 

[DevilDamo]

Without any drawings, I can’t see how a Planning Consultant would be able to provide anymore advice than what the LPA have done to date!?!

 

Why not first think about instructing somebody to draw up some proposals first and then seek Pre-application advice or advice from a PC or even proceed with a formal application. Bear in mind the latter may well trigger requirements under CIL if your LPA has indeed adopted the policy, which can lead to additional financial implications.

[Jordan1]

2 minutes ago, DevilDamo said:

Without any drawings, I can’t see how a Planning Consultant would be able to provide anymore advice than what the LPA have done to date!?!

 

Why not first think about instructing somebody to draw up some proposals first and then seek Pre-application advice or advice from a PC or even proceed with a formal application. Bear in mind the latter may well trigger requirements under CIL if your LPA has indeed adopted the policy, which can lead to additional financial implications.

 

I've mocked up a proposed elevation from road side which I showed to the Planning officer, I could do the same for rear and side elevations etc although the LPA seemed to be pretty dismissive of any proposal. I suppose my feeling is that its going to get rejected and if going for an appeal I thought having a planning consultant onboard for this would be beneficial.

[DevilDamo]

The LPA haven’t yet seen any scaled drawings though so they wouldn’t be able to fully comment until those have been provided. A Planning Consultant would also need the same.

 

No point in talking about appeal until you have at least gone through the formal Planning process. You can submit an application (with scaled drawings) along with a supporting statement by a consultant if you’d like. If that is refused, look at making some changes to suit the LPA’s concerns, which shows you are willing and re-submit taking advantage of a free go. If that’s refused, then look at taking it to appeal along with supporting from a PC.

Edited May 4, 2020 by DevilDamo

[Temp]

On 19/02/2020 at 17:14, Jordan1 said:

The plan is to rent out this house once renovated

 

Make sure you don't rent out the new one as that can loose you the zero VAT.

 

2 hours ago, Jordan1 said:

I've mocked up a proposed elevation from road side which I showed to the Planning officer, I could do the same for rear and side elevations et

 

I think they are more concerned about plan views. Eg you need to produce a plan view of that bit of the area showing other the houses. Best download an OS map or similar and trace it.