Chaz Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) Hi, We are currently looking at buying a property that was build somewhere in the 1950s. The land size is around 0.5 acre and there are some external sheds / buildings which I believe were erected 20-30 years ago but would not comply to today's permitted development regulations. The reason for this is that the main workshop / shed sits on the property boundary and exceeds the available height restriction. From what I can tell, I have a few options but I want to ensure I stay on the correct side of the law with respect to planning and my neighbours. 1. Fix what's there. What can I do to the structure without impeding into issues about consent? I have emailed West Ox District Council however I would need to provide plans etc before they can help and I'm not ready to do that. The building is a steel frame structure with metal corrugate roof panels (some now with holes and no longer waterproof) and some form of corrugated panels down the side. They look like asbestos but I believe they are the plasterboard type. 2. Move what's there - The metal element of the shed does not look entirely fixed - it could possibly be moved 2 meters away from the property boundary and I believe then it would be acceptable from a Permitted Development point of view. As I am considering something as large as 10m x 4m, I may need approval from Building Regulation, is this correct? 3. Pull it all down, start again. If so, my thoughts are to pour a foundation with self levelling concrete like Agilia, then do either single Breezeblock, wood panel, insulation & plasterboard or dual layer Breezeblock. I'd the like the workshop to be usable all year round, therefore heating / insulation is of interest. I may also carve up an area as an office / study / music / recording room. Size wise, I am looking at something like 10m x 4m x minimum of 3m. Most of the CNC machines I would want to have inside need a height of around 3m. Do I need foundations or is a good strong base enough? A friend of mine has done a 20m x 10m workshop and I believe has no foundations - but his base is 30cm deep. I am fairly handy (Qualified Electrician from South Africa) - I could do a lot of the work myself. Speaking to some, it sounds like its worth paying others to do the main brickwork, they will be faster and better than myself. I would perhaps do the wood / insulation and plasterboard. Depending on finish - I may not go for a 'in house' finish. I could also do the electrics (aware I need someone with the appropriate licenses to sign it off) and might be able to do plumbing (would like a basic basin / tap for washing up). For heating, no idea as yet. Ive attached some pics. There's some concrete but not much of it, so that will be removed. The structure is metal 'warehouse' type structure with some metal and some wood joists. The wood seems in bad repair in some places. One photo shows the side, plasterboard type of stuff. The Outside picture shows how ugly it is and what the neighbours see, that is also on the property boundary. All advice / info / questions appreciated. Thanks Edited January 30, 2020 by Chaz Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny68 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 The only advice I can give is DO NOT knock anything down before you have what you want in writing off the council. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 +1 to above. Perhaps get a certificate of lawful development for what's there first. Then apply for planning permission to rebuild them where they are, or in a different place if you wish. Fall back is just repair like for like what is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 31 minutes ago, ProDave said: +1 to above. Perhaps get a certificate of lawful development for what's there first. Then apply for planning permission to rebuild them where they are, or in a different place if you wish. Fall back is just repair like for like what is there. Thanks both. Do you believe that I can simply repair what's there (can I remove the roof and replace it with new sheets) without issues or do I need to speak to the council first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 I suppose this all depends on your budget, and what you want to end up with. If you repair what you have there it will always be a bit of a compromise. If you want a nice workshop with heating good light and a flat floor you would be better off flattening that and starting again. I see no reason why you won’t get consent to replace it with a better built and better looking building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfb Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 How far is the neighbours house from the building/workshop? If you are making noise then sound proofing might be a consideration. My instinct is that rather than reroof I would start again. Permitted development limit on outbuilding size is 30m2 so this is larger already. I wonder when it was built and if there has been any planning discussion about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 On a previous house I wanted to demolish the barn next to it and rebuild it, Council told me if I did that they would insist it was half the size (due to being close to a road) so I “renovated” it. Re roofed it then replaced wall sections one at a time. The building inspector who was overseeing work on the house (who I got on well with) praised me for beating the planners at their own game. I would ask the planners if they would allow you to replace the existing (by demolishing sand rebuilding), if they say not, do what I did ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 41 minutes ago, joe90 said: On a previous house I wanted to demolish the barn next to it and rebuild it, Council told me if I did that they would insist it was half the size (due to being close to a road) so I “renovated” it. Re roofed it then replaced wall sections one at a time. The building inspector who was overseeing work on the house (who I got on well with) praised me for beating the planners at their own game. I would ask the planners if they would allow you to replace the existing (by demolishing sand rebuilding), if they say not, do what I did ? +1 to the above. Do not take anything down untill you have written agreement from the planning tossers. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 Thanks all. Is 30 M^2 a limit of what is available under permitted development (even if the land allows for much larger)? In terms of the other properties, they are close but not that close. Noise may be a concern but I intend to isolate as much as possible. I believe planning wasnt an issue 20-30 years ago when this was all built. Not sure - is there any way to check? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 This is the current guidance, I dont see a restriction to 30 M^2. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/830643/190910_Tech_Guide_for_publishing.pdf On page 45 are some distance limitations but struggling to understand what this means. Can anyone point out the restriction of size please? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Chaz, 30sq meters is what you can build without having to get involved with Building Regs. Any electric that you supply to it , or sewage for a toilet etc should be signed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 Ok thanks. It will have electrics etc, so might as well get building regs involved I think. Property not purchased yet but heading that way it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Why are you thinking of permitted development? get planning and building regs for what you want, don’t build something that doesn’t fit your purpose just because you can get it under permitted development. How big is the building there already, I cannot see any reason you can’t replace it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 12 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: Why are you thinking of permitted development? get planning and building regs for what you want, don’t build something that doesn’t fit your purpose just because you can get it under permitted development. How big is the building there already, I cannot see any reason you can’t replace it. Just to keep things simple but if the guidance is just to get planning, then that's an option. What's there is probably 40-50 m^2, perhaps larger. I dont need as big but ideally not far off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 A workshop can never be too big!!,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 54 minutes ago, joe90 said: A workshop can never be too big!!,,,,, In fact, no matter how large, it is allways to o small.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said: In fact, no matter how large, it is allways to o small.... the only upside to my workshop not being too big it stops me taking on even more projects (before i finish the ones I already have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Just now, joe90 said: the only upside to my workshop not being too big it stops me taking on even more projects (before i finish the ones I already have. One again, can you ever have too many.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Big Jimbo said: One again, can you ever have too many.... Depends how long I live ? (in that case buy my little Furgy fir your missus and add that to your list!). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 Ironically this place has a small tractor that needs TLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chaz said: Ironically this place has a small tractor that needs TLC. picture please! @Big Jimbo,s missis might be interested ? Edited February 3, 2020 by joe90 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Right everybody. Stop with the tractors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 Pic as requested ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 Out of interest (and I dont know if you would know), does anyone know what tractor this might be? The number plate in the pic belongs to a 1975 Massey however a work colleague (who has some tractors) doesnt recognise it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 23 minutes ago, Chaz said: Out of interest (and I dont know if you would know), does anyone know what tractor this might be? The number plate in the pic belongs to a 1975 Massey however a work colleague (who has some tractors) doesnt recognise it. Pretty sure it's a Landini, and the reg is probably right, as Landini were owned by Massey-Ferguson. Looks like it has grass tyres, so may well have been used for looking after sports fields, maybe a golf course (or a very large lawn). Not sure of the Landini model, though. Might be a Landini 7500, but with the grill changed and the lights moved outside the grill. Could well have been a mod done to give better light coverage for a specialist grounds keeping type job, as the grill looks to be non-standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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