bippitybopp Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Hi all, would anyone be able to advise... short story... live in green belt with 30% max permitted uplift on original house. Neighbour had several planning apps refused because of this (always asking for around 109-159%) he’s now put in for the PD 8m extension. As his direct neighbour I have 21 days to object but can anyone help me with what grounds? Same as planning? Ironically green belt then goes out the window and if agreed he’ll get an 83% increase ? government didn’t really think this out did they! I am all for improving your home but in a sympathetic and law abiding way. his extension would block light to my kitchen which is on the side on my house in the middle and I’d look out onto a brick wall ? notes: neighbours never showed us plans before submitting any of them. Refused when we offered to talk about it. His house is already 6 bedrooms and 29m wide doors as you can appreciate 29x8m extension is huge, ugly joe he’s doing it and wouldn’t get past planning so PD it is ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Has he ever done any extensions under PD before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewpot Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 This is the Technical Handbook, covering all the rules: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/830643/190910_Tech_Guide_for_publishing.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 "Law abiding way" He is applying for an extention under the neighbourhood consultation scheme. What is illegal about that ? Think yourself lucky that you dont live next door to me. I'm in the greenbelt an got an increase from 500sq ft to 3000sq ft. Six times the original size.. When you come to sell your place, people will be able to say " Look we can turn this little house into a nice large house like nextdoor" His large house has prob added value to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bippitybopp Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 His plot is over 40m wide. His house is right on the boundary about 1m from my house. I don’t think he’ll add value as it’ll make mine harder to sell as my kitchen (middle house with one side window which will be blocked!) will be dark and dingy. Without spending a small fortune (I’m not planning renovating as spent fortune just to get this house a year ago!)(funds empty!) moving drainage, water etc and reconfiguring my whole downstairs this will really affect our amenity areas. Why should I have to use artificial light to cook etc in just for someone else’s gain. i just think people should be more fair on neighbours. So we can live peacefully. In comparison my 11m wide plot with only a 0.9m walkway to one side will not take a 8m rear extension. Not unless I want a dark dingy house in the center. I also wouldn’t do it as the neighbours on my other side would loose all light from theirs and I’m just not like that. maybe if the houses were set further apart... but this 8m rule for detached is stupid when there’s 45ish cm between me and one neighbour and under a metre between me and the one I want to object!!! maybe your neighbours were further away from you big jimbo? Too be honest... if mine were just 2-3 m more away from us I wouldn’t have an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 So your house on both sides is how close to the boundary ???? but you want your neighbour to stay 2 or 3 metres away ? ?? A bit double standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc100 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 While I sympathise with your initial post, I think it’s fair to say everyone has the right to change their house via PD so you can’t block for emotional/seem fair/emotive reasons. You can only block on planning rules/law. I would suggest you employ a planning consultant to help you in your objection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bippitybopp Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 It’s not for emotional reasons. law clearly states that you cannot have an adverse affect on neighbours amenity rooms. My kitchen is in the middle of my house. One window to the side. His extension, PD I accept, will block window. so to update this post as some thought I was being petty trying to protect my little 1400sqft house when he already has a 5000sf ft and large plot... I paid for a right to light survey... and it will do injury to several rooms but mainly kitchen.... so by law I can either get an injunction to stop him building OR the specialist said he can build but pay damages.... just to confirm I told my neighbour I was going to do this as I don’t want a dark kitchen which is artificially lit.... anyways... he too had an independent right for light assessment... his guy had same outcome as my guy.... my guy found the significant injury would be around £45k compensation HIS guy said more like £50k told them I don’t want the money and to just not black the windows so he has agreed to not do a 26m wide extension but to do a 22m wide which will result in no injury to the right for light. He’s happy he gets to build and not pay me £50k to do so... I’m happy as I get to keep natural light to kitchen... I don’t get a penny off him but was never about money. so I’m not being petty in wanting to protect my property on a very narrow plot. As I said if the houses were more spaced out I wouldn’t have a problem. But a solution has been found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Can someone clarify something. Why do you need to apply to do something under permitted development? I thought the whole point was you could just do it? Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 10 minutes ago, ProDave said: Can someone clarify something. Why do you need to apply to do something under permitted development? I thought the whole point was you could just do it? Am I wrong? The 8 meter deep is called neighbourhood consultation scheme. Not strictly PD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Davies Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 I don't know about this case but there are some “PD” sections which require a CLPD. E.g., wind turbines in Scotland, because a condition is that it doesn't interfere with airports and so on and the LA will check that. The difference from a planning application is that they simply determine if it meets the PD conditions or not. If it does then they have to permit it, irrespective of any planning policies or whatnot. Had that conversation with a planning lady on Orkney. I was discussing my plans trying with just PV and adding a turbine later under PD if it seemed useful/necessary. She was saying to put it in the initial planning application so they could check with the airport, etc. “Oh, that won't be a problem”, “You know about such things?”, “I wrote the software the CAA uses to check”. “Ah”. It was a bit of a stretch - the software I wrote is/was used by some CAA employees but isn't the official system in use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Read the guidance @Stewpot posted.. 8m rear extensions have to follow slightly different procedure to 4m rear extensions.. , These larger single-storey extensions, extending beyond the rear of the original house by more than 4 metres and less than 8 metres if a detached house, or by more than 3 metres and less than 6 metres in any other case, are subject to a neighbour consultation scheme to assess the impact of the proposed development on the amenity of their property. The requirements of the neighbour consultation scheme are set out in paragraph A.4 of Class A. Householders wishing to build a larger extension have to notify the local planning authority about the proposed extension and the local planning authority must give adjoining neighbours notice of the proposals and the opportunity to object. Works cannot commence until the local planning authority notifies the householder that no prior approval is required, or gives prior approval, or 42 days have passed without any decision by the local planning authority. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 @bippitybopp this might help. But becaware you only have 21 days to get your objection in. First thing to understand is that planners can only take what they call "valid" planning reasons for rejection into account. Things like your house loosing value are unfortunately not considered a valid reason. Issues that effect your use and enjoyment are valid reasons. Being overlooked or over-shadowed or losing your privacy are valid grounds to object. Yes I know it may seem unfair. There is a list of valid an invalid grounds for objection here.. https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Planning_objection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 16 hours ago, bippitybopp said: law clearly states that you cannot have an adverse affect on neighbours amenity rooms. My kitchen is in the middle of my house. One window to the side. His extension, PD I accept, will block window. Just to be clear, there is no law that states this. The guidance is that any adverse impact on neighbours must be taken into account during the consultation, but there is nothing that says there should be zero perceived adverse impact. Some perceived adverse impact, like the loss of a view, the partial reduction of natural light levels or the appearance of a neighbouring structure, may be deemed acceptable. It all comes down to the particular circumstances, together with the planning policies that are in force at the time, and how they are interpreted by the planning officer. Windows and overlooking usually have some form of defined planning rule that limits overlooking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) On 29/01/2020 at 17:04, bippitybopp said: Hi all, would anyone be able to advise... short story... live in green belt with 30% max permitted uplift on original house. Neighbour had several planning apps refused because of this (always asking for around 109-159%) I think that should be a large part of your objection. Calculate what percentage his extension would be and refer to the green belt 30% policy and the rejections. If possible I quote a list of recent rejections and the reasons given if they help your case. Sees also the "disproportionate" test used in some areas.. https://consultations.southglos.gov.uk/consult.ti/greenbeltspd/viewCompoundDoc?docid=4628&partid=1396 Quote In assessing whether a proposal is disproportionate or not, account will be taken of the following: The increase in volume of the dwelling; The appearance of the proposal - it should not be out of proportion with the scale and character of the dwelling As a general guide, an addition resulting in a volume increase less than 30% of the original dwelling would be likely to be acceptable. House extension additions that exceed 30% will be carefully assessed with particular regard to the second test in the box above - i.e. whether the proposal would appear out of scale and proportion. The larger a house becomes in excess of 30% of its original size, the less likely it is that new extension(s) will be considered acceptable. An addition resulting in a volume increase of 50% or more of the original dwelling would most likely be considered in excess of any reasonable definition of ‘limited extension’. Such a proposal would therefore be viewed as a disproportionate addition, contrary to policies GB1 and H4 of the South Gloucestershire Local Plan. Edited February 7, 2020 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, bippitybopp said: Law clearly states that you cannot have an adverse effect on neighbours amenity rooms. It doesn't really say that. Legal proceedings will not second guess the decision makers decision and can only deal with an error in law pertaining to the application. So if for example the applicant states they will retain something but it gets demolished etc. etc. then law can be used to challenge this. However yours is a civil matter. I understand you're upset here, I really do, but sadly the system is stacked against you. Perhaps you have a legal argument due to the green belt but sadly this means very little now and house builders and filling more and more houses with shoe-boxes made from cardboard. It sounds like planning have ruled to your benefit before by denying his application for the big extension, however he has now gone for a PD sized extension. I'd talk to them. Always try and stay onside with neighbours and be careful what you say as if you start mentioning law and they know about it, they will know you are ill informed and unlikely to cause a nuisance. You may have something in the right to light (assuming you are in England) that might be your only hope. Edited February 7, 2020 by Carrerahill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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