zoothorn Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 I have a 2 story extention, bedroom above a small workshop. Pitched roof. Timber frame shells > cavity > block cladding/ render. The lower room I want to put workbenches, use routers etc in/ only room I need as much "sound containment" in as I can. Door I've made thicker/ put insulation in.. a start. It has 1 pesky window in (not planned to, but BCO forced me to have one put in). Sound-proofing.. would be nice, but ££unrealistic. BCO told me to put in 140mm wall kingspan, so this to do. The ceiling: I have a dividing floor simply made of 10x joists of a timber top/btm + alu side brackets. 22mm Caber+ bedroom floor ontop of this. So I have to put insulation in the ceiling. What are my options? Is it worthwhile putting some acoustic-property stuff in here? Thanks zoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Kingspan does bugger all acoustically. Use mineral or glass wool, who will you be disturbing upstairs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 Hi moonshine. You mean put mineral or glass wool in the ceiling? Yes i assumed kingspan probably not any good acoustically- but what can I do if its what I'm told to put in walls by BCO.. max poss in my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 I may have missed what are you are after, noise reduction to rooms upstairs or to the outside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 Ah good Q, sorry I wasn't clear. Just to outside (only me in house/ top room my bedroom). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) Why worry, you will only piss off your nasty neighbours anyway ?. I use all sorts of power tools in my workshop (including routers, planer/thichnessers etc) and have no sound insulation and a single skin tin roof. Edited January 20, 2020 by joe90 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, zoothorn said: Ah good Q, sorry I wasn't clear. Just to outside (only me in house/ top room my bedroom). Which direction is the neighbours you don't want to disturb, through a wall, window or garage/workshop door? The block in the wall is doing a decent job, weak points acoustically are windows, doors, vents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, joe90 said: Why worry, you will only piss off your nasty neighbours anyway ? Even better Q Joe! they deserve SO much.. but, from one of them I had a noise complaint (router, C'saw etc used outside.. no more than 1+ hr/ day tho on average & nearest is approx 30m away: all detatched houses.. but many retirees) so need to do all I can to avoid the 'next council letter/ visit': actually the primary reason to build a 'workshop' of sorts, as an extension. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, zoothorn said: Even better Q Joe! they deserve SO much.. but, from one of them I had a noise complaint (router, C'saw etc used outside.. no more than 1+ hr/ day tho on average & nearest is approx 30m away: all detatched houses.. but many retirees) so need to do all I can to avoid the 'next council letter/ visit': actually the primary reason to build a 'workshop' of sorts, as an extension. if you are just doing it for limited time and in normal hours, then i can't see them having a valid complaint, and doubt that an EHO from the council would come knocking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 15 minutes ago, Moonshine said: Which direction is the neighbours you don't want to disturb, through a wall, window or garage/workshop door? The block in the wall is doing a decent job, weak points acoustically are windows, doors, vents Ok I made the back-side of extension, facing them all, with no windows. So that's great what you say about my block wall (only one skin of course tho) doing something. Good. So my thinking is the noise this side then, will mostly be eminating 'up > out' (due to only a layer of chipboard at the mo -dividing floor- at least some minimal containing within the bedroom ceiling -usual loft stuff- & a smidge last bit being the roof tiles). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Moonshine said: if you are just doing it for limited time and in normal hours, then i can't see them having a valid complaint, and doubt that an EHO from the council would come knocking Possibly not. But it didn't stop first a very stressful letter -potentially- threatening xyz.. & also a follow up council visit here. As council/ police have to follow up any complaint with a visit, my n'bors take advantage of it: more than 2 couples consistantly over 2.5 yrs instigating visits from every single dept they can think of, soley to cause me stress, less that they'd actually likely get any results. And it works. Every time the doorbell rings I get depressed/ dread fills me, another council man? they even got police visit me only weeks ago (due to my damn builder). And they think each is perfectly justified too. So in order to live here with as much relaxation as I can (not alot tbh) I need to mitigate against council visits, as best I can. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Such a shame you have nasty neighbours. Is the work you intend to do in your worksphop, hobby work, or work you will make money from it ? If it is just something you do for a hobby you would have far less potential restrictions re noise , neighbours, councils, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 38 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said: Such a shame you have nasty neighbours. Is the work you intend to do in your worksphop, hobby work, or work you will make money from it ? If it is just something you do for a hobby you would have far less potential restrictions re noise , neighbours, councils, etc. Hi Jimbo (appreciate comms there- I get so few folks saying this, I s'times question my own sanity). Yes whole point -is- that for the item I make for work, 1/2 of its total work per item is a consruction of wood (nasty bit- dust). The other 1/2 of the work for this item I make.. is quiet detail work (nice bit- no dust). So in effect -half- of my work, not hobby-work, is to be done within the room in Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 15 hours ago, Moonshine said: Kingspan does bugger all acoustically. Use mineral or glass wool, who will you be disturbing upstairs? Ok can I go back to the one suggestion so far. Moonshine: are you here suggesting using 'mineral or glass wool' for the ceiling I'm asking about? Or are you suggesting in reterospect it -would have been better if- I had used this stuff in the walls? (as I said, the walls have already been determined will be kingspan, as afaik the BCO determines what material & thickness .. not a choice I have). Its not quite clear as to what you are specifically referring to with regards to your suggestion. Thanks. zoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 “Mass” absorbs sound, I wish I had double boarded my ceilings as some noise can be heard through the floors despite sound insulation being installed. You could double board the walls and ceilings with only minimal loss of space and plasterboard is cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 23 minutes ago, joe90 said: “Mass” absorbs sound no "mass" reflects sound, insulation absorbs sound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 50 minutes ago, zoothorn said: Ok can I go back to the one suggestion so far. Moonshine: are you here suggesting using 'mineral or glass wool' for the ceiling I'm asking about? Or are you suggesting in reterospect it -would have been better if- I had used this stuff in the walls? (as I said, the walls have already been determined will be kingspan, as afaik the BCO determines what material & thickness .. not a choice I have). Its not quite clear as to what you are specifically referring to with regards to your suggestion. only if you want to insulation from the workshop to the rooms above in the same house, which you have said isn't an issue. In the external walls the kingspan is needed for the thermal properties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Moonshine said: only if you want to insulation from the workshop to the rooms above in the same house, which you have said isn't an issue. In the external walls the kingspan is needed for the thermal properties. Hi Moonshine. Yes, this area [ insulation from the workshop to the room] is what I am asking about. Because I have some mass in the walls (& I'm constrained re. the insulation/ its designated: kingspan) any suggestions re. what can/ could ideally be used to fill are redundant. I'm not asking about doors, or windows either bc I can only do so much (little, but they're at least facing opposite side to n'bors). Its not an issue -for myself sleeping above- bc I'm only one person in the house: this is not the point. Its sound escaping the house > to my n'bors: this is the only point. So there's only 1 area left sound can escape, that I can influence (& seems a very weak point too). Up. Through currently just 22mm of chipboard (dividing floor) >> up through the room above >> up via its ceiling (already plasterboarded & usual loft wool stuff/ done) >> out via loft > roof slates. Hence my thread as to what choices I might have to put in this dividing floor ceiling. Its the only section I have available. -------- Can you tell me whether your suggestion of 'mineral or glass wool ': were you referring to suggesting this for my ceiling (the dividing floor section I am only concerned with here).. or were you perhaps suggesting it for my walls ? thanks- zoot. Edited January 21, 2020 by zoothorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Mineral wool in the ceiling will deaden some sounds and then the bed/soft furnishings will take more out. Sound tends to travel in straight lines - assuming you’ve got rockwool in the roof too, then basically you’ve got a very small chance of any sound leaking from the building and this is worry about nothing. Worst case you can test it and if it isn’t ideal then add additional mass to the walls of the workshop using more board, or pre-empt it and use soundblock plasterboard and do it once and do it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 Hi PeterW. Ok understood. Ive only got one double bed upstairs tho.. only that/ not like a floor of futons to help. I believe I have the 'usual orange stuff' /rolls laid perp to each other in the loft, on the pB ceiling in room above (think it was blue/ yellow wrappere'd bales of this stuff). So no more suggestions then than just "mineral wool"? Is this the same orange stuff in my loft? Your suggesting of 'soundblock plasterboard' I think is using on the walls (in which case why not choose/ suggest for the dividing floor ceiling, if the walls are already known to be the strongest area-?). I will look into 'soundblock plasterboard', & 'mineral wool' tho.. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 @PeterW so going fwd, I'm going for standard mineral wool for this ceiling then afaict. Nothing acoustically-extra as I thought might be worthwhile. So 'mineral wool' has many variants. I seem to recall my builder suggesting one standard type (not poss to ask him Q's now) but not t'other.. something about falling down/ out whilst putting in, IE ease of the job. Would he likely be saying use 'rockwool' & don't use 'orange loft stuff' (whatever this is called exactly- glass something?). Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 Now this orange stuff actually has "acoustic" in the wording. Wouldn't this be beneficial, over 'mineral wool' (or is this mineral wool.. & therefore has sort of been suggested?). Or is this th verye stuff that'll fall out/ a pain to use pushing up into between my ceiling joists? https://www.jewson.co.uk/building-materials/thermal-insulation/loft-insulation/products/IUAR2075/ursa-acoustic-roll-85m-x-1200mm-x-75mm/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Use rockwool - so any of the Earthwool Frametherm products, not the loft products. 2 layers of 100mm and it will be fine. It will also work as sound and thermal insulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 48 minutes ago, PeterW said: Use rockwool - so any of the Earthwool Frametherm products, not the loft products. 2 layers of 100mm and it will be fine. It will also work as sound and thermal insulation. Ok PeterW will go for that. I'll only be able to get 100mm in tho, as whole floor is only 150mm (specified to save every cm, for max room heights). Can you remind me, what goes in 1st: the rockwool > electrics? or vice-versa. So what I'm doing is filling my dividing floor, from below UP, stuffing into the gaps between joists (hope to get some in joists themselves too if I can). I presume i can't do this once cables passed through the joists, as I'll be hindered by them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, PeterW said: Use rockwool - so any of the Earthwool Frametherm products, not the loft products. 2 layers of 100mm and it will be fine. It will also work as sound and thermal insulation. Ok so this is called a 'slab'.. is this the right stuff? https://www.insulation4less.co.uk/rockwool-flexi-slab-140mm-x-600mm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIztOL-KqX5wIVxLHtCh1e2gOOEAQYAiABEgKq8PD_BwE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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