Tanking

[PeterW]

If you want low wattage per metre then buy one of the cable systems and just stick it down wider apart than the recommended width. 

It basically comes with a roll of 1" duct tape and you put it where you want. You can't shorten it but if you buy the shortest length it should be fine 

[Jeremy Harris]

That's what I did.  The wire also allows more flexibility with layout, in that you can avoid areas like toilets etc more easily than with the mats.

[Bitpipe]

I'm up for that approach but was warned that the heat does not spread far from the wire so there was the potential for warm and cold spots in the tiled floor. This is not a space heating solution but just to prevent cold feet.

 

 

[Bitpipe]

15 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

The Impey installation guide suggests the inverse, tanking first and then UFH mat - although this is in reference to their own AquaMat system.

Nick, giving this a bounce as it was at the bottom of page 1.

I currently have 12mm of exposed former (it's 22mm thick, same as is the OSB deck and is sitting on 12mm ply on joists plus additional noggins around its perimeter and along its centre) which is an allowance for adhesive (3mm) + backer board (6mm) + self adhesive UFH mat (3mm) = 12mm.

So membrane could sail over all of this (using latex to fill the dips in the mat and bring it flush with the top of the wire) or the membrane could go under the matt (per the Impey recommendation) but then there will be a deficit on the rest of the floor.

 

[Bitpipe]

Just called Impey and they are pretty insistent that the order of laying should be backer board on adhesive flush to the wetroom former, then the membrane and then the UFH on top of this.

However this does not feel intuitive as the UFH will then be 3mm proud of the deck  - I guess the tiler could make up the deficit with adhesive.

Would also need to replace the current 12mm ply with 9mm ply to reduce the level of the former and make it flush with the backer boards.

Thoughts? 

 

[Trw144]

Picking this thread up again as I need to sort mine in a couple of weeks...

What is the best way for waterproofing/tanking a ground floor wetroom on screed and using a geberit shower channel.

I was looking at the Impey membrane systems for the floor and my questions are:

What is the best product for the walls - tile backer board, moisture resistant plasterboard etc.

Do I  need to fully tank the walls or just the joints of the tile board and floor junction?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Onoff]

On 25/05/2016 at 00:05, Nickfromwales said:

This is a former I'd just laid. The corners made up in sand and cement where an old pipe went through. The light grey stuff is the tanking primer which I cut in prior to fixing the tray into position. That just gave me a nice clean surface to bond the tray to.

This shot shows the stud wall in place, blame the bathroom showroom for not having the tray the full width, and with the first coat of tanking applied. After the first coat was tacky, I then applied the 4" strip ( as seen with Roman written on it ) into a layer of wet tanking. That then gets brushed quite firmly to remove excess tanking from behind the strip to ensure it's as flush and flat as possible so as not to hinder tiling. The strips run between the former and the insulation backer boards on the floor ( insulation boards as this had undertile heating on a ground floor ( concrete )), in all the internal angles both horizontal and vertical, and around the turn of the boxing in eg the external also.  

Leftover strip used around the shower valve. Belt and braces, aka OCD. 

Finished article prior to grouting. Note the shower valve is dead centre of the border tile ribbon, and also there are two same size tiles either side equally intersecting the shower valve. That's gives the same size cut of tile around the entire valve plate. Aka OCD

All of the above can also be observed when fitting a shower tray, just the only difference being that you can't use the strip between the shower tray and the wall. As the tile will only cover 12-14mm of the edge of the tray, you can't have the strip showing so another change of discipline is needed. The next one is a one piece shower tray, so basically you just tank the walls prior to the tray being fitted, which gives an excellent surface for the adhesive ( mastic type ) to adhere to when bonding the tray into its final position. What the picture doesn't show is the masking tape that I put onto the tray to allow me to get a neat edge to the sealant where it sits on the tray edge. 

That junction is quite important as it's the last line of defence against any water getting behind the tiles. What I do I these circumstances is to pump a load of mastic ( sikaflex for these is best as it's non silicone based and also doubles up as a sealant as well as an adhesive ) between the tray and the wall and then push the tray against the walls thus displacing any excess above the tray edge. This is when you'll be glad you masked it up first . Get a plastic spatula and then spread the excess sealant, whilst still wet, against the vertical wall face. Do this so you get an up-stand of sealant forming a 'skirting board' which is continuous between the tray, the wall, and vertical face of the wall, preferably all in one application. I set the masking tape around 5-6mm in from the edge of the tray so I know I'll get a straight line, and also a bead of sealant that's has a decent purchase on the tray, which then transfers to the wall. The action of tooling the sealant with the spatula pushes it against the tray itself thus forming a good / strong bond to both. After the horizontal sealant has cured, next run a bead up the internal angle for at least 600-900mm up the corner. 

With the fundamental sealing done, in goes the 45'd shower valve & pipework frame sections which them get plasterboarded and sealed, plus tanked prior to tiling. 

Roberts your mothers brother

The end.

 

Barsteward! Just showed the wife and she said "Perfect, that's just what I want!

 

Except.....she wants recesses both sides, doesn't  like the "twiddly" bits (aka controls) nor the "drainy" bit being in the middle.

 

So, got to mod the corner studwork to give a 45deg strip.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Onoff

[Nickfromwales]

The double bi-fold arrangement there was so that the room could be opened up when the shower was not in use. I'd not recommend that arrangement if you don't have the same remit / constraint, due to the slight 'complication' of opening / closing the doors from inside. The magnetic strips make it easy to form the cubicle, but it's an effort to open them tbh. The handles should make it easier but it was still easier to grab the glass at the top and pull on the opposite handle to start the opening process ( eg breaking the strong magnetic seal ).

If you want something similar, I'd recommend a fixed glass one side and a frameless door the other. You can go for the identical job if swmbo has her heart on it and I'll elaborate if necessary . 

?

[Onoff]

Ta. We're trying door less to start with but with strong studs positioned to add doors or glass "wings" later.

 

So you completed the square internal corner first then added the angled face.

[Nickfromwales]

I could have cut the tray with a diamond disc but didn't fancy it going wrong . 

( eg the tray only came square or rectangular). 

[Onoff]

Ta. As I plan "casting" my own tray in-situ, to falls I might do the angled woodwork first. Got to figure if it'll work at all as I'd left space bang in the corner for a conventional trap, clear of the UFH pipes which would now  get "covered" possibly by any such angled section. I've since been considering the Geberit wall drain. Cross these bridges when I get to them I guess!

 

 

[TheMitchells]

I'm thinking about the shower my parents are planning to install instead of the current bath.  it is in a Mobile Park Home so like a caravan but static.  therefore the walls are not solid.  we plan to take out the bath and replace with shower tray, use B&Q Splashwall panels around the area and fit a shower enclsure.

I am wondering about whether we'd need to tank the walls before fixing the wall panels.  The plan is to use Nicks sikaflex stuff on the tray to create an upstand.(as described here)  and then the panels would go on top of the shower tray.  Should we use some tanking stuff on the walls first? And which one?

I have looked at Aquaseal wet room system for around £30.  would that be enough?

Or are the panels sufficient by themselves.

[Triassic]

I've used these panels previously and found that the most important thing is the seal between the bottom of the panel and the tray.  So I used this product https://www.bellabathrooms.co.uk/classi-seal-shower-tray-and-bath-sealant.html

[Nickfromwales]

If you're doing the upstand as I show above and fitting wet-wall panels then there is no need to tank IMO. The only place you need to be careful is where there is a penetration through the panel, eg for the shower valve / soap basket / screw holes for shower screen etc which need to be pumped full of sealant to ensure water cannot get through / behind. That needs a generous, continuous ring of sealant to be applied on the wall at ( and as close to as possible ) each penetration, immediately prior to fitting the panels, so if water gets in it can't go anywhere. Basically when you push the panel against the wall for final fix, the sealant should be squeezed tight between the wall and the panel and the excess sealant then oozes out of the hole, displaced during the fitting of the panel. Any excess gets wiped away with cheapo baby wipes to seal the deal.

Make sure you use a timber straight edge to press against the panels so you don't get 'dents' where you're pushing the panels home, and you also need to particularly fussy to ensure that where the panels end they're nice and flat, so the edge trims and shower door profile fits snug with no undulations. Do all of these checks whilst the goop of choice is still wet.   Sikaflex is particularly good in this instance due to its excellent flexibility and lack of degradation. 

As its a caravan, what is the wall covering, and will the pipes be hidden in the wall or surface mounted? 

Also, have you read both mine and Jeremy's snippets regarding not fitting the panel manufacturers supplied trims at the bottom of the panels?

[Nickfromwales]

17 minutes ago, Triassic said:

I've used these panels previously and found that the most important thing is the seal between the bottom of the panel and the tray.  So I used this product https://www.bellabathrooms.co.uk/classi-seal-shower-tray-and-bath-sealant.html

I've seen that stuff but tbh I've never used it. I favour setting the tray into wet Sikaflex, pressing it into place to displace the excess, and then tooling the excess to form the upstand as shown in the previous pics. That also fills and seals any gaps between the tray and the wall and provides a good mechanical fix. I'm not sure I like anything stopping me from bonding / securing the actual tray to the surrounding walls, whereas the self adhesive on that strip is what your then relying on to do this and I'm not sure how well that would perform. Ok on a concrete floor with solid walls where bonding the tray to the floor would suffice, but where there's this amount of flexibility ( caravan ) I'd prefer it continuously sealed / bonded all round so it all 'moves' as one. 

[TheMitchells]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

If you're doing the upstand as I show above and fitting wet-wall panels then there is no need to tank IMO. The only place you need to be careful is where there is a penetration through the panel, eg for the shower valve / soap basket / screw holes for shower screen etc which need to be pumped full of sealant to ensure water cannot get through / behind. That needs a generous, continuous ring of sealant to be applied on the wall at ( and as close to as possible ) each penetration, immediately prior to fitting the panels, so if water gets in it can't go anywhere. Basically when you push the panel against the wall for final fix, the sealant should be squeezed tight between the wall and the panel and the excess sealant then oozes out of the hole, displaced during the fitting of the panel. Any excess gets wiped away with cheapo baby wipes to seal the deal.

Make sure you use a timber straight edge to press against the panels so you don't get 'dents' where you're pushing the panels home, and you also need to particularly fussy to ensure that where the panels end they're nice and flat, so the edge trims and shower door profile fits snug with no undulations. Do all of these checks whilst the goop of choice is still wet.   Sikaflex is particularly good in this instance due to its excellent flexibility and lack of degradation. 

As its a caravan, what is the wall covering, and will the pipes be hidden in the wall or surface mounted? 

Also, have you read both mine and Jeremy's snippets regarding not fitting the panel manufacturers supplied trims at the bottom of the panels?

 

I have the baby wipes ready!  The walls are covered with ply, I would guedss then wall papered but the pipes are already in place and hidden witin the wall.  we will do as you suggest re sealing all the pipes that come through the panels. 

No - I hadnt read about the supplied trims - would you recommend agaisnt using them? I'll have a look for the posts.

Thanks for the help.

[Onoff]

7 minutes ago, TheMitchells said:

 

I have the baby wipes ready!  The walls are covered with ply, I would guedss then wall papered but the pipes are already in place and hidden witin the wall.  we will do as you suggest re sealing all the pipes that come through the panels. 

No - I hadnt read about the supplied trims - would you recommend agaisnt using them? I'll have a look for the posts.

Thanks for the help.

 

This might help:

 

http://forum.buildhub.org.uk/ipb/topic/2240-i-hate-grotty-tile-grout/#comment-33931

 

Edit: I tried using the kid's "moist toilet tissue" the other day for removing excess CT1. Not a patch on baby wipes for the task.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Onoff

[Nickfromwales]

Another here

 

[Onoff]

When tanking (Aquaseal kit) you first put on a primer, leave to dry for two hours then apply a horizontal coat of membrane and 6 hours later a vertical coat of membrane.

 

Are those times set in stone? As in could I prime tonight, first coat of tanking tonight then second coat Friday? 

 

I've just primed. First coat of tanking will go on at 19.30 hrs tonight. I won't be up at 01.30hrs to do the second coat!

 

 

Ta

 

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Onoff

[bassanclan]

Yes that will be fine, so long as the primer is touch dry

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, bassanclan said:

Yes that will be fine, so long as the primer is touch dry

 

Ta, at my leisure then!

 

Going to tank, tile & grout the pocket first so I can work off the cover over the bath. Then I'll just have to work out of the bath to do the pocket side of the bath only.