"Caber+" floor to fit/ Q's.

[zoothorn]

Hi. I have an extention mostly built: builder main stuff complete. All inside xyz to do (1x floor, electrics, insulation, pB etc).

 

I'd appreciate some help in fitting a 22mm Caber+ floor (plus 50mm C'tex below) onto a ground floor slab. I saw the same floor fitted above (on joists of this lower room's ceiling) but done so quickly before I could take pics & take any notes. Boards all stacked ready.

 

 So to start: should floor be laid before the electrics/ insulation/ plasterboard?

 

Thanks, zoot.

[PeterW]

Insulation onto the floor, friction fitted. 
 

Lay a plastic DPM (sheet membrane) over the insulation. 
 

First caber board groove side up against the wall and into a corner with a couple of spacers to give you expansion gap (8-10mm)

 

Measure next board to fit to the gap and check for fit. 
 

Glue the tongue (foaming D4 is best) and fit the board tightly (use a board off cut and a mallet to keep the joints tight) and then leave the glue to dry and go for a cuppa. 

Take your off cut and use it to start the new row so you get staggered joints. 
 

Repeat as above... once first row is dried the rest can be done from that one. 

[Carrerahill]

32 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 So to start: should floor be laid before the electrics/ insulation/ plasterboard?

 

Regarding electrics and plumbing that depends on what you need and where. If I had laid my floor first I would have had ridiculous electrical and plumbing routes not to mention a near impossible waste pipe route.

 

 

[PeterW]

I would do floor, electrics, ceiling, walls in that order, burying the cabling in the walls.

 

Other option was to put the power cabling into the ceiling space and insulate it, fit the boards and pull the cabling in surface ducting to power sockets and switches. Easier to do as you don't need to worry about finding back boxes etc 

[zoothorn]

Hi Peter- I'll leave the electrics just for now: my head will explode if I try & consider these as well (my plan on this: get my nice spark him & me do 1st fit stuff.. then his more pro "Part-P" certified buddy he recommend, jump in to check all & 2nd fit: I'll do a thread after floor job).

 

Just floor, 1st job then.

 

Ok my builder didn't mention a dpm, either in the material list (just supplied poly board/ caber board) or the brief time he gave me outlining on how to do the job: I do of course have the main black dpm under slab > goes up at the edge @ block course > up over it to plinth top level.

 

Is the dpm box ticked then?

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Carrerahill said:

Regarding electrics and plumbing that depends on what you need and where. If I had laid my floor first I would have had ridiculous electrical and plumbing routes not to mention a near impossible waste pipe route.

 

 

 

Good point: I should have said, no plumbing at all. No electrics below either (floor to go directly onto ground floor slab).

 

So a fairly simple proposition/ job, I hope. Any idea if I can friction-only fit the Caber+ boards together? I may have to undo/ pull up the whole floor after I get it signed off.. not possible if C4 glued together.

 

 

[Declan52]

14 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Good point: I should have said, no plumbing at all. No electrics below either (floor to go directly onto ground floor slab).

 

So a fairly simple proposition/ job, I hope. Any idea if I can friction-only fit the Caber+ boards together? I may have to undo/ pull up the whole floor after I get it signed off.. not possible if C4 glued together.

 

 

Why would you want to lift the floor once it's been signed off??

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

Ok my builder didn't mention a dpm, either in the material list (just supplied poly board/ caber board) or the brief time he gave me outlining on how to do the job: I do of course have the main black dpm under slab > goes up at the edge @ block course > up over it to plinth top level.

 

Is the dpm box ticked then?

 

For the sake of £10-12 from S'Fix/T'stn I would just fit one.

 

24 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Any idea if I can friction-only fit the Caber+ boards together? I may have to undo/ pull up the whole floor after I get it signed off.. not possible if C4 glued together.

 

No as it will move, and why would you want to..???

[zoothorn]

33 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Why would you want to lift the floor once it's been signed off??

 

Another consequence of what my builder has done: ok this room was always to be low @ 2m. Its turned out to be less. Ok the reason:

 

During build to dissuade me from asking Q's (on the wretched 1ft-set-too-low issue) he promised me "all ok as this 1ft will be added to lower room H". Ok a compromise but at least I had a higher room I thought (& all more critical stuff therefore still be as per plan).

 

But once built I jump in & measure all panicked not only had he lied to me/ the extra H didn't happen.. but also with the original 100mm insulation + screed floor factored in (always discussed was to be the floor), later once I established it had NOT already been built in (all I could see was a concrete 'floor', all I knew was the floor him to be doing, such as the estimate 'floor & insulation below supplied' suggested to me at the time it would be his job/ & done?)............ I get a figure of 1.9m.

 

So I had to scrape every cm to get at least 2m as per my plan. So I plead with BCO & he agrees 50mm foam + 22mm board.. but tells me I have to go 140mm wall insulation then as a result (+£200 cost). Alot of stress My builder finds both my stress & the added cost amusing.

 

Sorry its complicated answer. Its but ONE consequence of this awful all-1ft-too-low ongoing issue I still have nothing but lies & hot air as to reasons its happened. Its actually the -least- critical consequence: if I list the others I get depressed.. lest to say I'm very angy & dissapointed..

Edited January 8, 2020 by zoothorn

[Declan52]

So with the insulation and floor done as planned what is the floor to ceiling height.

[zoothorn]

29 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

For the sake of £10-12 from S'Fix/T'stn I would just fit one.

 

 

No as it will move, and why would you want to..???

 

But what if I don't care if it moves, or put something temporary to fix it, so I can take it up?

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, Declan52 said:

So with the insulation and floor done as planned what is the floor to ceiling height.

 

1.9m.

 

I've also paid for the groundwork (because I panicked -yet again- when I saw his smallprint "if not paid in 14 days.. 10% surcharge" pressuring me to pay). Awful this has been from day 1.

[PeterW]

So you’re going to buy £250 of insulation and flooring and then rip it up and bin it a week after sign off ......???

 

I would plan to leave it down and put 140mm in the walls as per BCO and get yourself a decent warm workshop. In reality how often do you stand vs sit when working ..??

[Declan52]

As Peter says that's just madness. What will be more important. Height or warmth. 

How tall are you??

[zoothorn]

Just now, PeterW said:

So you’re going to buy £250 of insulation and flooring and then rip it up and bin it a week after sign off ......???

 

I would plan to leave it down and put 140mm in the walls as per BCO and get yourself a decent warm workshop. In reality how often do you stand vs sit when working ..??

 

Not quite no. When builder & I were on "compromise street" we agreed him to supply instead of 100mm poly + screed as per estimate (no idea how he was ever to 'supply' screed come to think of it).. 50mm poly + 22mm chipboard. Once BCO ok'd the idea.

 

My plan was to lay it & undo in a way & not be damaged, use the 50mm poly up (cabin floor garden uses 2 up) & around my freezing house (eg above kitchen/ mini attic).. & use the Caber+ made into workshop tops. I dunno. The main reason is to keep room H to 2.05m which is what I measure right now factoring in ceiling pB.

 

Actually I work 100% time standing: woodwork, cabinet covering/ everything within this room.

[zoothorn]

20 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

As Peter says that's just madness. What will be more important. Height or warmth. 

How tall are you??

 

Perfectly good Q. More important? I don't know, yet. This is the point of my idea: if I were to find it tollerable for H I could leave it. If its not I can undo it. Warmth is not something I have luxury of deciding on.. it just follows as a bonus if I can tollerate the low room H.

 

If I had the 2m I specified on my plan with the floor (ideally as originally 100mm + screed both to keep me warm AND to save me £200 on additional wall insulation).. I'd not have to be even considering 50mm +22mm chipboard, let alone doing without it entirely. But afaict the builder can just change my plan to suit him, then demand I pay up by worded threats (of 10% surcharges if not done so within 14 days). A disgrace I think.

 

5'11".

[Declan52]

So with the insulation and floor down your going to have 100mm of head room and without 200mm.

Being honest it's going to feel like your workshop is a cave no matter what option you pick. So it's up to you really on what is the best option in a horrible choice. 

Me I would probably get it passed and reuse the insulation and keep the floor. Nicer walking on the timber than bare concrete.

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Declan52 said:

So with the insulation and floor down your going to have 100mm of head room and without 200mm.

Being honest it's going to feel like your workshop is a cave no matter what option you pick. So it's up to you really on what is the best option in a horrible choice. 

Me I would probably get it passed and reuse the insulation and keep the floor. Nicer walking on the timber than bare concrete.

 

Now that's a good idea, hadn't thought of laying the caber+ on the concrete/ probably a ruberry mat between or something. It was originally always going to be a low 2m ceiling with no window (with 100mm & screed included), so the idea of adding the window might have served me well after all if I'm more constrained in H by 50mm than I was originally going to be.

 

Ok if I do your idea or mine, the same Q applies though: would you think its possible to friction-fit the Caber+, using no glue, & get it signed off? I can't see any safety issues. I wonder if the BCO would care or tell if it wasn't glued together?

 

cheers.

[Declan52]

It should go together fine but it's how much traffic it will take before it starts to spread is the question.

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, Declan52 said:

It should go together fine but it's how much traffic it will take before it starts to spread is the question.

 

starts to spread?

[Declan52]

14 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

starts to spread?

There won't be any glue holding each board together so could start to spread at the joints. The T&G aren't meant to hold the boards together permanently, that's the glues job.

Just don't do the insulation and floor till the last moment Then BCO inspects on a Monday and you lift it all Monday night or Tues then doubt it will matter.

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

There won't be any glue holding each board together so could start to spread at the joints. The T&G aren't meant to hold the boards together permanently, that's the glues job.

Just don't do the insulation and floor till the last moment Then BCO inspects on a Monday and you lift it all Monday night or Tues then doubt it will matter.

 

Ok understood/ that's a plan to consider.. assuming the BCO cannot tell &/ or wouldn't care if not glued together though.

 

I also have to consider if removing the floor insulation.. whether the cold released will affect the (priority) dwelling-room above: this will be the master bedroom ive decided now/ makes no sense to freeze in adjacent bedroom, & as its a bit bigger than I expected.

 

thanks Declan.

[joe90]

49 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I also have to consider if removing the floor insulation.. whether the cold released will affect the (priority) dwelling-room above: this will be the master bedroom ive decided now/ makes no sense to freeze in adjacent bedroom

if you decide not to heat your workroom but use the room above as master bedroom might be wise to fill the ceiling void between them with insulation!

Edited January 8, 2020 by joe90

[zoothorn]

6 minutes ago, joe90 said:

if you decide not to heat your workroom but use the room above as master bedroom might be wise to fill the ceiling void between them with insulation!

 

Hi joe90- was gonna do that, mainly for sound containing/ thought I had to put the orange stuff betwwen joinsts tbh for building regs re. insulation anyway.

[joe90]

The only regret with my build is noise between floors even with 100mm of insulation, might be wise to up the insulation you instal.