United Utilities Water: competent designers?

[ToughButterCup]

The background to this thread is here. Long story short, I maintain their water connection design is incompetent.

This thread is about the process of getting them to

• think about my point of view of view,
• ask them to re - consider their design
• and to install a stop tap outside our property.

I have written an initial email asking them to make contact.

 

Briefly, the design they insist upon does not include a stop tap outside our property. So, if as is the case here, I need to replace the first stop valve - which- they  state should be INSIDE  our property, then I need to do a significant amount of work to repair the  valve.

And that isn't fair, given that it is common practice to put a water stop valve outside new build houses.

 

Heres the design

 

[Jeremy Harris]

The design does include a shut off outside the property, although not one that can be easily accessed, as they seem to rely on the one built-in to the Talbot fitting on the main, which is now buried and far from easy to access I suspect.  Seems bonkers for them not to have fitted a toby somewhere near your boundary to shut off the incoming supply.

[Big Jimbo]

If , you were to say "I want a water meter please" where would they put it ? Actually, i might have to take that back. When they did my daughters they stuck it in the corner of the back room, and i stuck a removable boxing over it. There is however a stop tap out in the street. No stoptap outside seems like utter madness. I went through an old lead main  in an old kitchen, below the stoptap. If i hadn't been able to leg it outside, and shut it off in the street, i dont know what i would have done.... Madness, madness, they call it madness.

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Big Jimbo said:

If , you were to say "I want a water meter please" where would they put it ?[...]

 

Here's where I put (the hole for)  it, at their request... on our front wall.

 

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Harris said:

[...] Seems bonkers for them not to have fitted a toby somewhere near your boundary to shut off the incoming supply.

 

And that is what makes me suggets their design could be seen as incompetent.

[Big Jimbo]

1 minute ago, AnonymousBosch said:

 

Here's where I put (the hole for)  it, at their request... on our front wall.

 

Yep. I see it now. After your in house leaking stoptap. What a bloody nightmare. So the risk is Water pi$$ing out in your house, and nowhere outside to shut if off. That's crap,. I would defo be clamping that blue pipe off, within your land and fitting a stop tap of some sort. Should'nt be that hard.

[Declan52]

How many other properties does your feed supply??

Can you trace it back along the road and find a stop valve where you could turn the water of for a few minutes and connect your Toby then turn all back on again.

[Big Jimbo]

1 minute ago, Declan52 said:

How many other properties does your feed supply??

Can you trace it back along the road and find a stop valve where you could turn the water of for a few minutes and connect your Toby then turn all back on again.

Good idea. Trust the Irish.

[Construction Channel]

The bit that gets me about the design is it would be very easy for you to T off before the meter. Very very easy...... 

 

[Big Jimbo]

Just now, Big Jimbo said:

Good idea. Trust the Irish.

No offence. I just think that holes, and underground stuff is in the blood of an Irishman. It certainly is in my family

[Big Jimbo]

1 minute ago, Construction Channel said:

The bit that gets me about the design is it would be very easy for you to T off before the meter. Very very easy...... 

 

Run all your garden stuff, car washing etc, before it goes through the meter, and just put one w.c. handbasin through the meter. Very small water bills.

[Declan52]

1 minute ago, Big Jimbo said:

No offence. I just think that holes, and underground stuff is in the blood of an Irishman. It certainly is in my family

None taken. 

[ToughButterCup]

 

20 minutes ago, Construction Channel said:

The bit that gets me about the design is it would be very easy for you to T off before the meter. Very very easy...... 

 

Edward, wash your mouth out with champagne.  ☺️

 

23 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

[...]

Can you trace it back along the road and find a stop valve where you could turn the water of for a few minutes and connect your Toby then turn all back on again.

 

Done that already. But it's illegal innit. However ... 

[Construction Channel]

20 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

Run all your garden stuff, car washing etc, before it goes through the meter, and just put one w.c. handbasin through the meter. Very small water bills.

 

I never suggested anything of the sort because that would be illegal. 

Just seems to me if someone were that way inclined it would be almost too tempting 

[Declan52]

7 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

 

Edward, wash your mouth out with champagne.  ☺️

 

 

Done that already. But it's illegal innit. However ... 

Only if your caught.

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, AnonymousBosch said:

 

Here's where I put (the hole for)  it, at their request... on our front wall.

 

That is exactly what is at the bottom of the Toby on our boundary, except we are not metered so there is a blanking plug screwed in, instead of a meter.

[Jeremy Harris]

Isn't that box a damned great thermal bridge through an insulated wall?

[ToughButterCup]

Naaaah.

The electricty, water come at The Piggery - not the house- precisely to avoid that issue. Called Brick shed in the image below.

( Because the Planners might have declared us a brown field site - Psst! need Some home cured bacon?)

[JFDIY]

That drawing is s bit bonkers, you aren't actually required to fit a stop tap in your property, only the drain cock, it just recommends it ( text to the right of enlarged bubble)

 

They might argue that if it wasn't fitted there would be no chance of a leak.

 

That said my folks had a leak in the drive on the outgoing side of the meter and the water supplier did all the rectification and waived the £1k water bill caused by the leak, because they installed the meter and made the connection which 30yrs later leaked.

 

 

Personally I'd fit a stop tap outside, just in case.......

[joe90]

Yes, in a former house we had a leak after the meter in the pavement right in the middle of my lawn, Bristol water found the leak, repaired it and waived the large bill (they estimated one from previous months) and advised me to instal a new pipe from meter to house. I was amazed as this pipe was my responsibility!!!, they did however tell me any subsequent leaks would be my responsibility.fair comment .

[ToughButterCup]

Well, silence has been the loud reply from United Utilities . So, I'm going to report a leak using their reporting system.

Anyone care to Suggest a suitable form of words to wake them up?

[joe90]

Why not cut a small hole in the pipe just after their main connection, call it a split!!! I reported a leak near here after tractors had been over the verge and water was leaking, they were here within hours. If water is escaping they will come out faster. Have a stop cock ready to insert on the boundary so you can install it at the same time.

[ProDave]

52 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

Well, silence has been the loud reply from United Utilities . So, I'm going to report a leak using their reporting system.

Anyone care to Suggest a suitable form of words to wake them up?

Report it as a leak on "the incoming pipe"

 

Have a boundary box and hole dug and a brown envelope to encourage the guys to install it.

[ToughButterCup]

20 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Report it as a leak on "the incoming pipe"...

Thanks Dave, as ever, knowing exactly what to say is the key.

[ToughButterCup]

Well well, well. You'll never guess what happened next ...................

 

10 minutes ago a guy from United Utilites Water came out and weighed the job up.  I can't (well, shouldn't) report the language used, but he thought that the design was somewhat lacking in common sense. He agreed that a leaking packing gland in a valve was a foreseeable failure and that therefore the design I was asked to follow was not competent.

The site was surveyed, marked up on the ground and a job logged inside 5 minutes. A few moments later I had a text notification that the job to insert an external stop valve had been raised . Lively discussions followed about  Head Office people - in a wide variety of disciplines -  not knowing what they are doing  .

The job might well be finished inside 5 working days. Result !Top Bloke!

 

Lets see what happens next.

 

Why oh why did UU try it on?