Zoot's Extention- progress.

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Jilly said:

How about: To approach the discussion with the builder, armed with a note pad and a pot of hippy tea,  ask ' what are my options for the trench?' ' Can you draw it so I understand how it will work and what the pros and cons are?' 

 

 

Just done that Jilly 15mins ago. He drew up the drawbridge on any work bar putting in the drain around ("doing this foc" & this is decent of him). BCO visiting today, who I'll ask what best/ simplest way to remedy this trench -and- the inside exposed area: my builder drew up drawbridge on this too.. suggesting either mesh/ render or block it.. IE up to me/ he'll not be doing it included with the build. In my book its an area he exposed so he shouldn't he patch up I asked? he laughed at this.. "oh no, no", in his book we didn't agree to any inside work on the lower room he said. No point me getting firm on this, when he's said he'll put a drain in foc.. or he'll just U-turn on it.

 

I suggested if he could skim 100mm off the drive area (he agreed before.. but now seems reticent) then maybe could he at least just lay a base for sleepers? "no need, just dry stone wall it with the stuff (slate) we've removed". I said but this would take me months. He laughed.

 

We agreed, at least, to pick up this conversation later "see what BCO says".. "let's get the build done 1st". So we're good. But I'm worried about the additional costs of 1) the trench 'retain wall', 2) the exposed area to cover, 3) a 5m fence that needs replacing the hedge they (& scaffolders) had to destroy/ remove to get access. I guess it could be worse. And is this sort of add-on costs 'par for course' of such a build?

[Gone West]

50 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

And is this sort of add-on costs 'par for course' of such a build?

Unfortunately there are always extra costs associated with building work, things crop up. At least the main part of the building work is ok.

[zoothorn]

4 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

Unfortunately there are always extra costs associated with building work, things crop up. At least the main part of the building work is ok.

 

Ok understood Peter. The BCO came & given the go-ahead for a retaining wall of sleepers, in 6" from the drop-point now.. so approx 2 ft from building. So this is perhaps do-able by me once builders gone, & builder actually coughed up & nipped off 100mm from the drive area.

 

The exposed area isn't quite clear to him yet: he said keep the dpm (which rises up the 500mm at edge, covering the area.. mostly) but as to how to patch it.. he couldn't say/ not an obvious solution.

 

The other thing is the H in lower room ( only 2140mm), the insulation/ floor/ ceiling pB yet to go in. So I got him to agree reluctantly to 50mm + 22mm chipboard floor (I think he agreed).. on condition that:

 

A) I put in 140mm celotex wall insulation,

 

AND

 

B) I put in a damn window (it has none in the plan, nor do I need or want one: its a workshop & sound will flood out of it): my builder has put in the window perimeter in the outer block & a lintel etc, but its fairly wide. Can I put in a small window do you think in this wide block 'gap'? or am I tied in with the exact window size, by the block 'gap' that's been made?

[Gone West]

51 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

B) I put in a damn window (it has none in the plan, nor do I need or want one: its a workshop & sound will flood out of it): my builder has put in the window perimeter in the outer block & a lintel etc, but its fairly wide. Can I put in a small window do you think in this wide block 'gap'? or am I tied in with the exact window size, by the block 'gap' that's been made?

It can be narrower because it's the length of the lintel that determines the maximum width. If there isn't an actual opening yet then it's just a case of cutting the blocks to create the width that you want. The opening has to have enough of the lintel supported each side so ideally put your opening in the centre of the lintel. The window could be triple glazed or be double glazed with secondary glazing to reduce sound.

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

It can be narrower because it's the length of the lintel that determines the maximum width. If there isn't an actual opening yet then it's just a case of cutting the blocks to create the width that you want. The opening has to have enough of the lintel supported each side so ideally put your opening in the centre of the lintel. The window could be triple glazed or be double glazed with secondary glazing to reduce sound.

 

Hi Peter- actually the opening has been made. I don't quite know why as we agreed it would be plastered over, so maybe tmrw they plan to 'blank it' with timber.. I assume so.

 

Ok so if the opening has been made (only the block side), its what then.. just a case of putting in more block LHS, RHS, & on the sill to fit the narrower & a bit shorter window?

[zoothorn]

@PeterStarck .. or maybe just a course of one block one side, just shift the window over a bit one way L or R?

 

You see now I have the hurry-on about this window, a similar type to the adjacent main room's two small windows (white upvc) strikes me as ideal.. in sync with the old house.

 

Its a shame its a day late.. as only today they blocked this window opening, but they were constrained to go this width due to being on same line as the studs behind in the Timber Frame wall.

[Gone West]

13 hours ago, zoothorn said:

or maybe just a course of one block one side, just shift the window over a bit one way L or R?

Yes either would be ok as long as the lintel is correctly supported.

[zoothorn]

23 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

Yes either would be ok as long as the lintel is correctly supported.

 

Hi Peter- the lintel is a galv metal plate, bricks ontop, block ontop of that. I don't like really.. I can see a bit of a bow. Anyway done now.

 

We've agreed a smaller window, pack out the LHS 250mm. So it looks more in keeping with orig windows. But this stud packing is a void.. sound will get out here and via the window.. the very design of this room was to keep sound in. Is there any way of solidifying the packed area up?

[Gone West]

9 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

But this stud packing is a void.. sound will get out here and via the window.. the very design of this room was to keep sound in. Is there any way of solidifying the packed area up?

Am I correct in thinking that you are saying that an extra piece of timber has been added to the timber frame to reduce the width of the window opening and that as a result there is a void in the timber frame. If so all the timber frame should be filled with insulation including the new void.

[zoothorn]

5 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

Am I correct in thinking that you are saying that an extra piece of timber has been added to the timber frame to reduce the width of the window opening and that as a result there is a void in the timber frame. If so all the timber frame should be filled with insulation including the new void.

 

No its the block outer skin which only has the opening. My builder advised me he put in a block opening/ plaster over/ so I can do a window later. And told me "you can have a narrower window to the opening, easy" prior to him just going 2150mm width/ blocked. I thought just at the time it'd need just more block or brick to pack.

 

Now it seems having a narrower window (the BCO told me I had to have one now, only 2 days ago you see) has the caveat of needing a timber packing bit either side, or one side of the window. Block or brick packing is not possible. So I either have a huge window I never wanted, or a narrower one (920mm opening we're going for) but it needs timber packing.

 

So this area not ideal for sound containing (nor is a damn window, but 2x glazed at least). Its this area I wonder if can be solidified- up somehow.

 

[PeterW]

You’re not making sense.....

 

So there is a 2150mm hole in the outer blockwork with matching hole in the timber frame ..?

 

And you want to reduce to 950mm..??

 

So thats blockwork needed in each side, then leave the middle open. 
 

Same on the inside with timber frame 

[joe90]

This thread is a good example of why full plans rather than building notice is a good idea for those not in the know! The window issue would have been specified at the beginning along with all the height issues.

Edited November 15, 2019 by joe90

[Gone West]

38 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

or a narrower one (920mm opening we're going for) but it needs timber packing.

I think that is what I was trying to say. The opening in the block outer skin can be made narrower with blocks and an equivalent opening in the timber frame made by adding timberwork. Then insulation added to the area around the opening. Whereabouts in the depth of the wall are your windows being fitted?

[zoothorn]

51 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

 

14 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

I think that is what I was trying to say. The opening in the block outer skin can be made narrower with blocks and an equivalent opening in the timber frame made by adding timberwork. Then insulation added to the area around the opening. Whereabouts in the depth of the wall are your windows being fitted?

 

But this is what I thought too, just block or brick the difference one side/ or either side.

 

But my builder says you cannot block the ~25mm overall difference, even attacking just one side of the opening, because it cannot be tied to the inside vertical block face already made (so far as I can establish from what his reason was) only timber he said. Which means a void.

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by zoothorn

[Gone West]

5 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

But my builder says you cannot block the ~25mm overall difference, even attacking just one side of the opening, because it cannot be tied to the inside vertical block face already made (so far as I can establish from what his reason was) only timber he said. Which means a void.

If the difference is only 25mm can't the window be made 25mm wider or am I not understanding this very well.

[zoothorn]

49 minutes ago, joe90 said:

This thread is a good example of why full plans rather than building notice is a good idea for those not in the know! The window issue would have been specified at the beginning along with all the height issues.

 

No it wouldn't joe. If I had gone full plans, the window wouldn't have miraculously appeared on it would it!

 

The window is an afterthought by my builder, because he said its a good idea to consider doing it in the future. The idea was to plaster over it > knock thru in 5 yrs time. My plans do not have it: therefore: I do not want it.

 

Things change though.. if the BCO comes along & says he wants a window. If the door has no light in, he wants a fkn window. I DO NOT.

 

He has seen the plans before the 1st day. He knew there was no window. Only now does he decide he wants one.

-----

 

The fkn height issues was my builder not telling me, because he's a builder & hoodwinked me. If this was on full plans.. either he wouldn't have been able to build it, & the full plans would have had to be completely redrawn costing me an additional £500 (because whoever did the plan, would not have had roof-engineering experience to know the collars on the rough plan he'd go by to draw up, were 350mm unsuitably high.. & once it all went to the Timber Frame Co > they'd say 'not possible').. OR.. he'd just have done what he's done & built it as close to the plan as he possibly could. In this case 350mm lower. But didn't tell me. Hence I had no idea once the 1st level was constructed (the slab) of anything other than it was 350mm wrong.

 

Please don't assume xyz & pick at me. Wrong.

 

 

[PeterW]

Ok think I get this ...

 

To do this, he is saying he has nothing to attach blockwork to. The internal frame doesn’t have any OSB sheathing to it, so he would need to make a new internal sheathed frame, then attach blockwork ties from the outside. 
 

It can be done, and isn’t difficult. But it needs thinking through. Need to build a pair of “boxes” and put OSB on the outside of them, and set them into the internal frame. Fix top bottom and side. 
 

This creates a smaller window opening, and now you can attach blockwork ties to the outside of this, and block up the gap. 
 

That will reduce the size of the hole, and allow the blockwork to span correctly. 
 

@zoothorn triple glazed UPVC isn’t expensive and you can get very good acoustic properties from even cheap 3G windows. 

[zoothorn]

7 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

If the difference is only 25mm can't the window be made 25mm wider or am I not understanding this very well.

 250mm. 25cm. A typo sorry. I did say block opening 2150mm (too wide) & I want it 920mm before a few times.

 

Call this difference 250mm for now, so its clear (the exact fig is not important 230mm, 260mm/ whatever).

 

Only one side of the block opening is to be "packed". So 250mm of packing is to be constructed.

 

The Q is what can I do?

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, PeterW said:

Ok think I get this ...

 

To do this, he is saying he has nothing to attach blockwork to. The internal frame doesn’t have any OSB sheathing to it, so he would need to make a new internal sheathed frame, then attach blockwork ties from the outside. 
 

It can be done, and isn’t difficult. But it needs thinking through. Need to build a pair of “boxes” and put OSB on the outside of them, and set them into the internal frame. Fix top bottom and side. 
 

This creates a smaller window opening, and now you can attach blockwork ties to the outside of this, and block up the gap. 
 

That will reduce the size of the hole, and allow the blockwork to span correctly. 
 

@zoothorn triple glazed UPVC isn’t expensive and you can get very good acoustic properties from even cheap 3G windows. 

 

No, sorry. Just forget the inside TF course for now. I have never introduced this side of the wall. That is easy (in his opinion) so I don't need advice about that/ I leave it to him.

 

I am only talking about the outer block opening. Nothing else but this. Its width is too big. He wants to reduce it with timber. I don't like this. I want block or brick. Can I have block or brick?

 

I am talking about in 4 days time, what the window attatches to L and R.

[Gone West]

6 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

The Q is what can I do?

Ask your builder if he can do what @PeterW has suggested.

 

Edit : Sorry cross posted.

Edited November 15, 2019 by PeterStarck

[zoothorn]

Can anyone uinderstand what I mean? I have a block frame. Its 2150 wide. Its too big. How do I make it 920mm wide ---without--- using timber to make up the difference?

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

Ask your builder if he can do what @PeterW has suggested.

 

Edit : Sorry cross posted.

 

But PeterW is talking about the inner Timber Frame course, isnt he? Look here he says..

 

" The internal frame doesn’t have any OSB sheathing to it, so he would need to make a new internal sheathed frame, then attach blockwork ties from the outside. "

 

Internal frame?? what internal frame?? internal?? the window goes on the external block opening. OSB i see only on/ within the inner timber frame course. I have not even introduced this whole course into the issue. I don't need to consider this course.

 

I have just talked of the block hole.
 

[Declan52]

So you have an opening in a wall that's 2150mm wide that you want to reduce to 920mm???

If so just cut the blocks that aren't full blocks out and continue along till you get the width you want.

As always a nice pic would really help with the confusion.

[Gone West]

4 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I have just talked of the block hole.

I can't see the problem. It's a total of 2150-920=1230mm difference. 600mm each side or the whole 1230mm on one side. It can still be blocked up without ties or put some noggins in the frame and tie onto those if necessary.

[dpmiller]

hang on a mo...

There's a cavity between timber and block that needs closing with a firestop too don't forget,  and it'd expedient to mount the window to that rather than the blockwork.