Pocster Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) Having one of those days . Me and mdpe have a bad relationship- some fittings no probs others I start swearing as they leak . Harder I try colder and wetter my hands get lessen the chance of success . Then you can’t undo a fixing ; so you undo at the other end . Then when you put back other end leaks - more swearing . Hands numbing from cold water in dungeon . I put the gun down ( do I shoot me or hunt down the mdpe inventor ) . “Speedfit fixings” think I might have a court case there for misleading title . I know the pipe has to be straight to go in the fitting snug but (expletive deleted) me ! I lie it on a flat bit of timber - yes it bends maybe 1mm - still leaks . More swearing . Then the suicidal voice says “ F this ; go for a jog “ I hate mdpe - I hate it . It’s not ‘flexible pipe’ , a fitting that hasn’t ever leaked decides it wants to today . Push fit to brass - give me strength ! STOP LEAKING ! I’ll stop otherwise it will be the call to the Samaritans . Edited October 23, 2019 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Have you used the JG Speedfit Push Fit MDPE stuff from Screwfix...?? Hope you kept your receipt... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 19 minutes ago, pocster said: I hate mdpe - I hate it . It’s not ‘flexible pipe’ , a fitting that hasn’t ever leaked decides it wants to today . Push fit to brass - give me strength ! STOP LEAKING ! Reminds me of my struggles doing the shed/laundry plumbing in 25mm MDPE. I thought I could delay learning about normal plumbing until much later in the build = mistake. 25mm MDPE is fine for sweeping curves underground or up through foundations but should not be shaped for more complex pipe routes at room scale. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 59 minutes ago, PeterW said: Have you used the JG Speedfit Push Fit MDPE stuff from Screwfix...?? Hope you kept your receipt... I’m not sure where they came from . The quality does seem to vary quite a lot . All WRAS approved but some feel cheap ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, epsilonGreedy said: Reminds me of my struggles doing the shed/laundry plumbing in 25mm MDPE. I thought I could delay learning about normal plumbing until much later in the build = mistake. 25mm MDPE is fine for sweeping curves underground or up through foundations but should not be shaped for more complex pipe routes at room scale. I’m just trying to get my mains mdpe into my manifold . Then it’s all Hep2o from there . I’d go insane mdpe’ ing an entire house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 This is the worse offender . All my 90 degree fittings are plasson . You get that satisfying click when the pipe is fully in . Not with this crap tap and it wasn’t cheap . You can put the pipe in , no click , force it as hard as you can and it’s still loose and can almost fall out . I won’t swear in type I’ll just vent it out here on my own ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) Tempted to rip all the mdpe out and just have 1 mdpe to Hep2o converter .... They exist I assume ! Edited October 23, 2019 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 Right ! Decided ! Rip this out and re do with Hep2o . I think the mdpe is 25mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Key things I found when using MDPE: - Make sure that the ends are always cut square, preferably using a plastic pipe cutter with a very sharp blade. - Always fit an insert into the pipe before putting it in the fitting. - Always mark the pipe with a Sharpie or similar to show the full inserted depth, so you know when it's fully home in the fitting. - Always may sure that the end of the pipe, where the fitting seal sits is both clean and free from scratches, particularly longitudinal scratches. MDPE pipe does scratch easily, so it's always best to keep areas where fittings will go protected until you're ready to connect them. Electrical tape works well, and leaves no residue (as long as it's decent stuff). - If the end of a pipe is scratched, then you "may" be able to polish the scratches out with a bit of fine Scotchbrite pad, used so that it is spun around the outside end of the pipe. This will leave very fine circumferential scratches, but the seals in the fittings are better able to deal with fine scratches like this than they are longitudinal scratches. - Worth adding a smear of silicone grease around the inside of each fitting, where the O seal is. They usually have a bit of silicone grease there, but a bit more often makes things a bit easier to assemble. Finally, the worst fittings I've used have been the Flo-Plast ones from Screwfix, the ones with the very pale blue collars, that use a sort of lip seal, rather than the O ring that other fittings normally use. For some reason these seem very fussy about the condition of the end of the pipe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 24 minutes ago, JSHarris said: Key things I found when using MDPE: - Make sure that the ends are always cut square, preferably using a plastic pipe cutter with a very sharp blade. - Always fit an insert into the pipe before putting it in the fitting. - Always mark the pipe with a Sharpie or similar to show the full inserted depth, so you know when it's fully home in the fitting. - Always may sure that the end of the pipe, where the fitting seal sits is both clean and free from scratches, particularly longitudinal scratches. MDPE pipe does scratch easily, so it's always best to keep areas where fittings will go protected until you're ready to connect them. Electrical tape works well, and leaves no residue (as long as it's decent stuff). - If the end of a pipe is scratched, then you "may" be able to polish the scratches out with a bit of fine Scotchbrite pad, used so that it is spun around the outside end of the pipe. This will leave very fine circumferential scratches, but the seals in the fittings are better able to deal with fine scratches like this than they are longitudinal scratches. - Worth adding a smear of silicone grease around the inside of each fitting, where the O seal is. They usually have a bit of silicone grease there, but a bit more often makes things a bit easier to assemble. Finally, the worst fittings I've used have been the Flo-Plast ones from Screwfix, the ones with the very pale blue collars, that use a sort of lip seal, rather than the O ring that other fittings normally use. For some reason these seem very fussy about the condition of the end of the pipe. Still changing it to Hep2o for my own peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) Wavin state " I would like to joint my Cold Water Blue MDPE Pipe with 15mm Hep2O barrier pipe for an outside tap. Is it okay to use? Hep2O is for internal use, however if it is used externally it will need to be protected from frost and UV light. Please note we do not have a connection between 15mm Hep2O and 20mm or 25mm MDPE." Edited October 23, 2019 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 Please note we do not have a connection between 15mm Hep2O and 20mm or 25mm MDPE." I'm guessing just Wavin don't but speed fit or similar do?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 But they do seem to do stop cocks MDPE to Hep2o ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Mostly I see the blue pipe just coming into the building, then a stop cock, then copper. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpd Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) Following with interest as I have my MDPE ending in the house but have got no further, so swapping to Hep2o may be the way to go. Personally not had a problem with MDPE but I did notice the pipe is very slightly oval and not round ! So the inserts are essential. also. I got all my stuff from PIPESTOCK and everything was great quality and very well priced. Edited October 24, 2019 by Cpd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 29 minutes ago, Cpd said: Following with interest as I have my MDPE ending in the house but have got no further, so swapping to Hep2o may be the way to go. Personally not had a problem with MDPE but I did notice the pipe is very slightly oval and not round ! So the inserts are essential. also. I got all my stuff from PIPESTOCK and everything was great quality and very well priced. Trust me as soon as you go Hep2o the better . Mdpe can be ok but if you have a long pipe run you can ‘feel’ the fittings under strain - this is where you get the leaks . Hep2o pipe is more flexible and the fittings just feel tighter , more reliable- not had a Hep2o fitting cause me an issue yet . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) I could not get this 25mm mfpe to brass stop cock to stop leaking. Looking back now I see the pipe is a bit on the pi$$: It was I think @Nickfromwalessuggested assembling with a sealing paste, the name escapes me (Rocol Gas Seal maybe?). Anyway I went with Jet Blue Plus in the end. No more squeaks doing up compression fittings, they do up further and of course no more leaks! You can use on polyethylene too, see the description: https://www.wolseley.co.uk/product/center-center-jet-blue-plus-500-g/ No substitute for a decent fitting in the first place of course. Edited October 24, 2019 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Onoff said: I could not get this 25mm mfpe to brass stop cock to stop leaking. Looking back now I see the pipe is a bit on the pi$$: It was I think @Nickfromwalessuggested assembling with a sealing paste, the name escapes me (Rocol Gas Seal maybe?). Anyway I went with Jet Blue Plus in the end. No more squeaks doing up compression fittings, they do up further and of course no more leaks! You can use on polyethylene too, see the description: https://www.wolseley.co.uk/product/center-center-jet-blue-plus-500-g/ No substitute for a decent fitting in the first place of course. On the p*iss !! My grannies knickers are straighter than that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) So ! I replaced mdpe with Hep2o. So as Hep2o is a lot more forgiving on bends I now have just 2 tee’s where it crosses the ceiling . These joints will always be exposed so can always get to them . Hep2o much easier to work with; only issues I experienced. Once the pipe inserts are in they are in unlike mdpe ones you can remove . Not an issue though . Hep2o 22mm more difficult to dismount - but then the key isn’t like the 15mm or perhaps it’s just me . Hep2o fittings that go Hep2o to plastic thread ( say for a tap ) leak no matter how much plumbers tape and washers I use ( hence why tap is upside down to reduce leak ! ) . Will change this to a brass wall plate I think . Tested manifolds off the main tap - leak free now . Edited November 1, 2019 by pocster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 On 24/10/2019 at 10:27, Cpd said: ... also. I got all my stuff from PIPESTOCK and everything was great quality and very well priced. Pipestock: A word of warning, their much publicized next day delivery does not apply to Plasson connectors because they do not keep Plasson stock which means any order with Plasson bits will go to "back order" and take a few days longer. Like the OP @pocsterI found Philmac connectors difficult to use and deeply regret allowing Pipestock to substitute Philmac connectors when I ordered Plassons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 On 23/10/2019 at 15:02, JSHarris said: - Always mark the pipe with a Sharpie or similar to show the full inserted depth, so you know when it's fully home in the fitting. I wanted to follow that advice but since it is not possible to predict many turns before the collar is fully tight I was not sure where to put the mark. Do you push the pipe fully home to the mark with the collar disconnected further down the pipe? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 1 minute ago, epsilonGreedy said: I wanted to follow that advice but since it is not possible to predict many turns before the collar is fully tight I was not sure where to put the mark. Do you push the pipe fully home to the mark with the collar disconnected further down the pipe? Just measure the depth in the fitting from the step where the pipe/insert sits to the outer face of the fitting with the collar and grip ring off and use that distance to mark the pipe (or push the pipe in and mark it). Slip the collar and grip ring up the pipe, making sure the grip ring doesn't score the pipe (I like to hold them open slightly when sliding them on). Push the pipe into the fitting until it's fully home, then slip the grip ring and collar down and tighten. Doing it this way avoids the risk of scratching the seal area on the pipe by pushing it through the grip ring when it may be a bit tight, and also means the grip ring ends up being abutted to the O ring retaining flange, so when the collar is tightened the O ring gets compressed on to the pipe slightly before that flange bottoms out on the end of the fitting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) On 23/10/2019 at 13:28, pocster said: This is the worse offender . All my 90 degree fittings are plasson . You get that satisfying click when the pipe is fully in . Not with this crap tap and it wasn’t cheap . You can put the pipe in , no click , force it as hard as you can and it’s still loose and can almost fall out . I won’t swear in type I’ll just vent it out here on my own ! That looks like a Philmac stopcock. This brand has caused me similar anguish and like you I found the loose fit a problem, maybe Philmacs are only suitable for mutant plumbers with 4 arms. As it happens I have yet another slow leak in my shed at a Philmac connector and find Philmac connection collars have to be cranked down to the thread endstop before they stop leaking. A plumbing trade old-hand explained they were originally designed to accommodate two common pipe sizes in use decades ago. I suspect that original USP has become a liability today. Edited November 1, 2019 by epsilonGreedy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 Hep2o saves the day ! ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 39 minutes ago, pocster said: Hep2o saves the day ! ??? There's Hep2O here I put in doing some mods (like upstairs CH) when we bought the place 20 years ago. Never had an issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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