BCO vs SE - who wins?

[Red Kite]

Interesting scenario - my SE has designed in some strip footings under my slab and says they need to be there for frost protection. However by BCO says he is happy if they are not built as he is happy with the ground and the slab (300mm RC) on its own. So who wins? and am I OK to go against my SE and follow the cheaper route OK'd by the BCO?

 

Any thoughts or experience? Thx

[ProDave]

You BCO seems to be saying he would be happy if they are NOT there.  But he does not seem to be saying he would be unhappy if they ARE there.

 

So on that basis I would do as the SE says and you BCO won't complain.

 

Or did he actually say he won't allow them?

[willbish]

Are the strip footings shown on the drawings? And do you have a build warranty to satisfy?

 

Worth considering that the BCO you are dealing with might change throughout the build and the next BCO may have a different opinion which could cause a headache if you don't follow the SE design.

[jamieled]

They have two different functions. One makes sure you meet building regs, the other designs you a structurally sound house.

 

If you go against the SE advice, you are carrying quite  bit of risk if anything goes wrong (even if it is unrelated to the topic of discussion).

 

 

[jamiehamy]

In Scotland the SE is responsible for structural items. Here it's almost irrelevant what the Bco thinks because he's not responsible or liable for it. It's not really a case of who wins but who do you try claim against or blame if you didn't follow the SE design - the answer is No one. If the SE design fails? The SE. 

 

Personally I wouldn't go there. If its a small amount cheaper it's not worth losing liability. If its a lot cheaper somethings not right! 

Edited October 19, 2019 by jamiehamy

[nod]

It’s your money and your choice 

SE are normally cautious 

If BC are happy there is nothing stopping you pushing on 

[newhome]

Depends if you want to be able to claim on your SE's indemnity insurance later because if you go against their instructions and something goes wrong you're in a tricky position. Have you approached the SE with the BCO's view to see what his thoughts are? 

[Red Kite]

All, thanks for the comments - it seems like there is no clear cut answer here (perhaps in Scotland)  - and at the end of the day its all about risk mitigation and recovery. As we all know claiming off a Structural Warranty or a SE's PII would be almost impossible - but NOT following them would make life very difficult IF anything went wrong in the future.

 

So as will all of these things it was down to negotiation - the strip foundation is down from 1m to 300mm deep - and everyone seems happy! I am still not convinced that you need anything under a 300mm RC slab (unless you are expecting bunker busting missiles!) but  IF there is ever a problem I can prove I did 'the right thing'. And in the scheme of things what's a few m3 of concrete here or there!

 

The other concern from the BCO had was from a H&S perspective was how deep the guys would be working  - this is resolved and they will be working at about ground level. This was one I was not prepared to compromise on - making sure the folks on site are safe to work trumps absolutely everything in my book. Plus I believe it gets really messy if you have preventable accidents on site, and though I am not the main contractor I do have (at the very least) a moral obligation in this. I always make a point when I visit site to look around and ask the guys if everything is safe for them to work. For example there is a little bit of mud (amazingly small) coming off the site during the day - less than the farm gateway down the road - and they sweep up at the end of the day, but I suggested a couple of 'mud on road' signs, So just in case anything happens we can say we made the effort - a simple CYA strategy. I know Elf and Safety sometimes gets a bad rep and the micky taken (rightly so IMHO when it flies in the face of common sense), but as self builders at any level of involvement we do have a very serious duty of care. Sorry rant over - I will now get off my soap box!!!!