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Basic cement/ ballast Q


zoothorn

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1 hour ago, Declan52 said:

Is it not easier to use a 6*6 fence post for the up rights. All you building is a basic deck and what's normally used is 3*3 or 4*4 fence posts. But as yours is carrying weight on just two areas I would use 6*6 posts. They are strong, cheap and readily available and are treated already. Then bolt them to you pad stones using brackets like @Onoff has above. It's just a simple deck.

 

 

Understood- but I am putting a log cabin on the base, not just a few chairs & a thin shed. Maybe 1000kg going on: will 6x6 be adequate?

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So each post only has to carry ¼ of a tonne. 

A 6*6 post will be more then enough to carry that weight and much much more. The compressive strength of timber is very high. 

Do you plan to notch the supports so your beams rest on the timber or are you using bolts to take the weight???

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17 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

So each post only has to carry ¼ of a tonne. 

A 6*6 post will be more then enough to carry that weight and much much more. The compressive strength of timber is very high. 

Do you plan to notch the supports so your beams rest on the timber or are you using bolts to take the weight???

 

What about longevity of these 6x6's though.. extremely wet climate here/ almost rainforest tbh. I think that's maybe why my pro chap recommended sleepers, tho can't imagine he'd be thinking reclaimed type as they look alot trickier to bracket in with uneven ends.

 

Q understood: erm.. not sure bolts or notches: what would you recommend?

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@Onoff just seen your Q under your photo of kids area thing- looks terrific that btw.

 

" So are you planning sleeper uprights, then two sleepers across and your deck sits on that? " I can see you have gone this way in your sketch with coloured-in bits-for-dim-zoot (fab btw.. wish I had this drawing ability)..

 

but tbh I'm not sure what to do.. I cant decide bc I dont have the knowledge to tell. I was hoping for some advice on this bit.

 

At the mo my plan is Ive got my 6x6 uprights, notches in sides, into plinth brackets. That's it. More than this Ive only a vague idea of a 4-side frame of 6x2's doubled up (or 6x3's, or 8x2's). How these go relative to the uprights I'm not sure on. Let alone how to fix the 4 sides frame together/ or into the plinths upper side/ or how the frame attatches to whatver its to sit upon pillar-side.

 

Alot of procrastination still to do.

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12 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

@Onoff just seen your Q under your photo of kids area thing- looks terrific that btw.

 

" So are you planning sleeper uprights, then two sleepers across and your deck sits on that? " I can see you have gone this way in your sketch with coloured-in bits-for-dim-zoot (fab btw.. wish I had this drawing ability)..

 

but tbh I'm not sure what to do.. I cant decide bc I dont have the knowledge to tell. I was hoping for some advice on this bit.

 

At the mo my plan is Ive got my 6x6 uprights, notches in sides, into plinth brackets. That's it. More than this Ive only a vague idea of a 4-side frame of 6x2's doubled up (or 6x3's, or 8x2's). How these go relative to the uprights I'm not sure on. Let alone how to fix the 4 sides frame together/ or into the plinths upper side/ or how the frame attatches to whatver its to sit upon pillar-side.

 

Alot of procrastination still to do.

 

Give me half hour and I'll fire up the CAD machine. 

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Just playing around with things here...you call it I can draw it! 4 circular plinths at 2.5m x 2.5m centres.

 

Reds are 10"x5' notched to take the green 8'x2's. Blues are 8'x2's screwed to reds:

 

001.JPG.501120692e68b2c091d1296d299be66a.JPG

 

MY preferred solution: red and blue are 10'x5', greens 8'x2', grey just an 8'x2' to cap the front off. Really well supported front end.

 

002.JPG.f05c5aff689db3c7d43d6207ca0019ef.JPG

 

Noggins not shown again (roughly shown at 400 ctrs). I can easily double up on the edge beams.

 

Shout how you see it and I'll mod the sketch and even dimension.

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1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

What about longevity of these 6x6's though.. extremely wet climate here/ almost rainforest tbh. I think that's maybe why my pro chap recommended sleepers,

 

A 6x6 tanalised gate post will last equally as long as a tanalised 8x4 sleeper, and possibly longer. Sleepers are not designed or graded for structural work so you’re at the mercy of what rocks up. 

 

I would also suggest you lift the back beam ends off those concrete pads as water will pool around them and rot them.  Get something to lift them up, even if it’s only 50mm

 

 

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@Onoff very cool indeed! I will be telling people its computer designed.

 

Am I allowed to go your 2nd plan, but a different upper side: no BLUE sleeper under here, the outer beams lying on the plinths instead? If I go 8x2's then adding a "GREY cap" on this top end, would be one of my 4 cabin wall-loads-onto it. If so, the whole shebang drops down 5". As PeterW mentions water sitting on plinths & in contact with beams in this idea tho.. is there anything I could put between?

 

If I go as per your 2nd plan, with big 8x2's I'm a full 7" higher than I'd anticipated: already it'll be fairly high off the ground (floor approx 60cm off the ground in front of the door). I think another 7" height & it'll look weird & perched up, & be tricky to hide its underneath area.

 

Ideally I should have put the upper plinths set down 5".. but I was nervous to with the back plinth, in case steep earth bank above it misbehaved.

 

Thanks- zoot

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Totally forgot about the 6"x6" suggestion mentioned earlier! ? I'm only one beer in as well. 

 

@PeterW mentioning getting the arse end of it up above the damp is very, very valid. I'd go as far as to say what you don't want to rot should be 150mm up from the plinths. That figure is how high house damp courses are nominally. Stems from how high the average rain drop will bounce I was told as an apprentice.

 

I was figuring a reclaimed "proper" sleeper that was steeped in proper creosote back in the day would have been OK in direct contact with the plinth.

 

@PeterW, how about a line of engineering bricks on those top plinths with a bit of dpc between them and any timber?

 

Give me half hour (again).

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4 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

If the legs bolt in place it would be easy enough to change one in 10years time if a bit of rot set in, I wouldn’t overly panic. 

 

He doesn't want back legs as far as I can tell.

 

If he had the frame just resting on a 6" high bit of something with a piece of dpm on top, then he could, as you say lift up (with a trolley jack) down the line and replace.

Edited by Onoff
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4 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

You don't think it should be 150mm off rather than 50mm?

 

Tbh I think its wishful thinking even aiming for 50mm.. for numpty me.

 

1 minute ago, Russell griffiths said:

If the legs bolt in place it would be easy enough to change one in 10years time if a bit of rot set in, I wouldn’t overly panic. 

 

I'm inclined to agree.. its just a bit beyond me to add the ideal xyz into the job I think, which already I'm in a mild sweat about.

 

Thanks alot for ideas- zoot

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4 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Something as simple as a few pieces of slate would do. Your only looking it to not be sitting in water on the pads. 

 

So what about when you get some soil and rotting veg wash down the slope and sit against whatever legs/beam is at the top?

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4 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Is there no sock/ condom type thing made of plastic that could slip onto 6x6 posts instead? surely this is a common use for 6x6 posts.

 

Ferdinand's sort of fence post protection thing, but in 6x6 format..

 

The earlier linked, galvanised post bases are the best thing, hands down.

 

(Unless you can afford to have them made in stainless steel!)

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12 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

So what about when you get some soil and rotting veg wash down the slope and sit against whatever legs/beam is at the top?

The posts will be on the brackets you had shown above. I'm talking about the other to pads where the horizontal beams are resting. Your only looking them up of the pad enough to allow air to get underneath.

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3 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

The posts will be on the brackets you had shown above. I'm talking about the other to pads where the horizontal beams are resting. Your only looking them up of the pad enough to allow air to get underneath.

 

Disagree. Bottom of the timber should be 6" up in the air. Its Welsh Wales ffs, it's always wet! :D

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10 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Disagree. Bottom of the timber should be 6" up in the air. Its Welsh Wales ffs, it's always wet! :D

 

My chap said only something about 'some dpm to rest on' or between maybe.. ok no not bombproof, but to last long enough+ is the idea.

 

Open to other ideas. I think 2cm is adequate to prevent the resting beams on the upper plinfs sitting in any standing water: once the placcy tube rim is cut down a bit tp just below concrete top there'll only ever be 1 cm if that at max of water on these two upper plinfs.. it'll just drain off rather than pool on only a 2ft dia plinf.

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24 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

The posts will be on the brackets you had shown above. I'm talking about the other to pads where the horizontal beams are resting. Your only looking them up of the pad enough to allow air to get underneath.

 

I'm not too worried about soil & rotting veg(haha!). The adjacent steep bank is actually very stable, clay & I barely disturbed it puttin in me plinfths.

 

rotting veg!! I think Onoff's had an ale. Turnip & leek slagheap, btm of zoot's miners cttg garden see.

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