Laminated glass

[Russell griffiths]

So looking at part q building regs, has everybody had laminated glass fitted to all doors and windows at ground floor level. 

 

Seems massively over kill to me, what have you all done. 

[Jeremy Harris]

Only where it was mandatory at the time.  My view is that there is never a "one size fits all" answer to security, as the risk varies a very great deal from one area to another.  For example, my mother always used to leave the house unlocked, and her car unlocked with the key in the ignition.  She did this for decades, and I only found out about the car being left like this when she wanted to sell it, rang me and asked if I could come over and get the (rusted in) key out of the ignition.

 

Behaving like that in an area with a higher level of crime would be asking for trouble, and I can see that fitting laminated glass etc might be sensible for a minority of locations where there was a significant risk of burglary by breaking through glass.  According to our local crimestoppers contact, most crimes around here tends to be opportunistic, with the thieves targeting the easiest places to steal from.  Most burglaries don't involve breaking windows, it seems there are simpler, quieter, ways to get into most houses.

[Russell griffiths]

That would be my common sense approach to it @JSHarris but is laminated glass not mandatory in part Q of the building regs. 

[Jeremy Harris]

8 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

That would be my common sense approach to it @JSHarris but is laminated glass not mandatory in part Q of the building regs. 

 

Depends whether that pane of glass provides access, it seems:

Quote

“any glazing which, if broken would allow someone to insert their hand and release the locking device on the inside of the door should be a minimum of class P1A in accordance with BS EN 356:2000. Double- or triple-glazed units need to incorporate only one pane of class-P1A glass.”

 

For non-opening glazing then it doesn't look as if laminated glass is needed, and arguably if the locking mechanism inside the door or window cannot be operated by someone putting their hand in through a broken glazing unit then it wouldn't need laminated glass, either.  Maybe a bit of a tenuous argument, but having key-operated locking mechanisms inside, with the keys not left in the locks, might comply with the letter of the requirement, if not the spirit of it.  Anything that disables the lock from inside would seem to comply.

[craig]

Part Q is a shift towards SBD as standard for all new builds. Laminated outer pane on all ground floor windows. Irrespective of location or window type.

Edited August 4, 2019 by craig

[nod]

None of ours is laminated 

Bifolds French doors windows are all toughened 

[Russell griffiths]

Who the bloody hell writes this stuff. Why can they not be clear every rule can be read in a different context depending on how you look at things. 

[Jeremy Harris]

37 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Who the bloody hell writes this stuff. Why can they not be clear every rule can be read in a different context depending on how you look at things. 

 

I get the strong feeling that some of the interpretations of building regs are a result of "if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" mentality.  The regs make no reference to needing laminated glass, they simply state that any ground floor door or opening window must provide a degree of protection from someone breaking the glass, putting a hand in and being able to unlatch it.  Laminated glass is one possible solution, but not the only one.  Anything that stopped the window/door from being opened by a hand poked through would comply with what Part Q actually stipulates.

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

Who the bloody hell writes this stuff. [...]

 

Good  innit? Make of what I write what you want, Russell.

[Roz]

When checking if we could use a certain set of bifolds, I asked our Building Control guy about this and I specified they were not laminated, and he said 'either laminated or toughened'. Our joiner was of the same opinion. I'm sure others have said only laminated. Might be worth you asking your BC as thats what it comes down to.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Roz

[PeterW]

Toughened is fine - laminated is a different product that has specific purposes and is especially suited for horizontal or roof glass. 

[craig]

Toughened is fine but Part Q is going full SBD, it is already in Scotland for new builds.

 

However, it boils down to interpretation by the BCO and different regions.

Edited August 4, 2019 by craig

[Russell griffiths]

 

thanks all, another stupid rule that can be interpreted in many ways

what a crock

no wonder mass housing is in such a state if you can bend stuff to fit your agenda. 

[ToughButterCup]

8 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

[...]

no wonder mass housing is in such a state if you can bend stuff to fit your agenda. 

 

Anna Notherthing you can't blame on the EU .....?

Dont worry Mods, I'll get me coat