Jeremy Harris Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 20 minutes ago, lizzie said: I am keen to explore getting one or more of these units installed.....living area and bedroom. At the mo I am running 3 dyson air coolers which are helpful in making things bearable but just really give a cocoon of personal cooling not whole room. How does aircon fit with mvhr running at the same time.....does it cause balance problems do you know? How are you treating your mvhr with your new aircon in action. Because the air con just recirculates room air, cooling it as it does so, it has no effect on ventilation, so doesn't effect the MVHR at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, JSHarris said: Because the air con just recirculates room air, cooling it as it does so, it has no effect on ventilation, so doesn't effect the MVHR at all. perfect! Just need to find me a ‘man what does’ and get them in! Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 I'll be biting the bullet on this, and going for a mini-project ("The Coolroom"). There's a little bit of thinking to do first, just about how I will tackle it should I need to do more of the house, and about possible ASHP for the future when the boiler dies in about 10 years or whenever. I don't really know about this side of self-build. so help will be most welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 As a possibly useful data point, our 2.5 kW unit seems more than capable of cooling not just the ~50m³ bedroom, but also the whole of the ~100m³ entrance hall as well, if we leave the bedroom door open. We do have pretty good insulation, with a fairly long decrement delay, though, which significantly reduces the amount of heat that gets through the structure when the sun is shining on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) I can see appliances direct offer an installation service for air con units.......do you think I would be 'safe' using one of these installers in my MBC TF house? They are offering at 5% VAT too instead of 20% https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/content/air-conditioner-installation Edited July 25, 2019 by lizzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 17 hours ago, Ferdinand said: unfortunately the only Unico that fits my wallspace is the tower version, which looks even more expensive than the normal normal £1200-1500 in the range. I will not get that past the authorities for cooling a single room. So it is perhaps looking like Jeremy’s option, and running the ducting for a few m down by the conservatory. F I am liking the tower one it would fit very neatly in a corner of my room but I cannot find either a price or a spec that says how many sqm room size it suitable for....do you find that info somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Just now, lizzie said: I am liking the tower one it would fit very neatly in a corner of my room but I cannot find either a price or a spec that says how many sqm room size it suitable for....do you find that info somewhere? Its a bit of reverse engineering as you take the heating load and effectively reverse the process ..! You need volume and heat loss, then start and end temperature required. Unless it’s a very large space though, it should be fine for most rooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 37 minutes ago, lizzie said: I can see appliances direct offer an installation service for air con units.......do you think I would be 'safe' using one of these installers in my MBC TF house? They are offering at 5% VAT too instead of 20% https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/content/air-conditioner-installation Their installation costs seem high. I spoke to a local (commercial) air conditioning chap and he reckoned that he could install and commission a typical mini split system in less than half a day (he told me he'd fitted one in two hours once). Allowing a fairly generous £300/day, that would mean installation should cost around £150 plus materials (installation materials should be no more than about £100). Appliances Direct state this: Quote *Saving based on a typical single unit installation to an existing 13 amp socket on an outside ground or first floor wall at £830 and a typical wall mounted air conditioner and wall bracket at £420. You'd pay just 5% VAT so your total would be £1094 rather than £1250, saving you £156!. The installation price will vary dependent on your install requirements. £420 for a 9,000 BTU (2.5 kW) unit and wall bracket is for a TCL (Chinese, but with a Toshiba compressor). Might be fine, but I have a suspicion that this is very much a budget unit. The well-known brand name stuff starts at around £600 for the unit, plus fitting accessories. I was quoted £1150, including VAT, to supply and install a Mitsubishi 2.5 kW unit by a local supplier. I baulked at that, as the installation cost seemed high. The Appliances Direct installation cost is even higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, PeterW said: Its a bit of reverse engineering as you take the heating load and effectively reverse the process ..! You need volume and heat loss, then start and end temperature required. Unless it’s a very large space though, it should be fine for most rooms. Thank you...in main 'hot' area I am looking at a space of circa 56sqm so not small. Room is approx 7m x 8m and 2.5m high so I am getting that to 87.5 cubic meters....I am totally thick with this sort of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, JSHarris said: Their installation costs seem high. I spoke to a local (commercial) air conditioning chap and he reckoned that he could install and commission a typical mini split system in less than half a day (he told me he'd fitted one in two hours once). Allowing a fairly generous £300/day, that would mean installation should cost around £150 plus materials (installation materials should be no more than about £100). Appliances Direct state this: £420 for a 9,000 BTU (2.5 kW) unit and wall bracket is for a TCL (Chinese, but with a Toshiba compressor). Might be fine, but I have a suspicion that this is very much a budget unit. The well-known brand name stuff starts at around £600 for the unit, plus fitting accessories. I was quoted £1150, including VAT, to supply and install a Mitsubishi 2.5 kW unit by a local supplier. I baulked at that, as the installation cost seemed high. The Appliances Direct installation cost is even higher. Mmmm thought as much. Might try a local company had not thought of that - I only want one of those no gubbins on the outside wall ones I don't want a big unit outside so a simple install I would have thought. 1 man core drill....am I being silly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, lizzie said: Thank you...in main 'hot' area I am looking at a space of circa 56sqm so not small. Room is approx 7m x 8m and 2.5m high so I am getting that to 87.5 cubic meters....I am totally thick with this sort of stuff. I make that 140 cubic metres. F Edited July 25, 2019 by Ferdinand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Ferdinand said: I make that 140 cubic metres. F See I am totally useless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daiking Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, lizzie said: Thank you...in main 'hot' area I am looking at a space of circa 56sqm so not small. Room is approx 7m x 8m and 2.5m high so I am getting that to 87.5 cubic meters....I am totally thick with this sort of stuff. https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/content/which-air-conditioner Those single unit ones seem fine for a 'normal room' up to about 20 sq m not an open plan 'space'. I think you're going to need a bigger boat. btw it'll be cold tomorrow and we'll wonder what all the fuss was about. Edited July 25, 2019 by daiking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, lizzie said: See I am totally useless! Good job you checked ! Recommend a misspent retirement watching Countdown. 55 sqm is about the size of my lounge - conservatory - kitchen - utility when I add it up. But it is north facing so should be a bit more resilient. Edited July 25, 2019 by Ferdinand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 People talk about future mass migrations of populations due to climate change.... assumed to be people from already hot countries that then become unlivable... but I can see the north of England, Scotland, and northern Ireland being invaded by sweaty southerners after today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 25 minutes ago, lizzie said: Mmmm thought as much. Might try a local company had not thought of that - I only want one of those no gubbins on the outside wall ones I don't want a big unit outside so a simple install I would have thought. 1 man core drill....am I being silly! I can't realistically see how anyone could take more than half a day to install one of the all-in-one units, like the Unico, that only need two large duct holes through the wall plus a drain hole. As for the power you will need, as we're finding that a 2.5 kW unit seems able to cool at least 150m³ in an MBC house, and bearing in mind that our house is in a very sheltered "hot spot", I would have thought that a unit of the same size should be OK for your needs. The room sizing they quote for these things is based on a typical UK house, with poor insulation, so they will cool a much larger space that is well insulated. The limitation is how far the fan in the unit will "throw" air, but we're finding that ours seems to be fairly even. Right now it's 29.2°C outside, 20.2°C upstairs in the bedroom where the air con unit is and 21.0°C downstairs in the hall (and our hall has volume of around 100m³) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 24 minutes ago, lizzie said: Mmmm thought as much. Might try a local company had not thought of that - I only want one of those no gubbins on the outside wall ones I don't want a big unit outside so a simple install I would have thought. 1 man core drill....am I being silly! Not that difficult to do, but finding someone with a decent 165mm hole saw may be a challenge !! From memory, you have a pretty decent insulation level, and one of the larger single room units would work ok as the cooling load would be less than the finger in air calculators. Also worth bearing in mind that as long as the rate of cooling is more than the heat gain, the temperature will reduce..! It's just how rapidly is the question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, Conor said: People talk about future mass migrations of populations due to climate change.... assumed to be people from already hot countries that then become unlivable... but I can see the north of England, Scotland, and northern Ireland being invaded by sweaty southerners after today! Pleasant 21 degrees, dry, some cloud, here in the Highlands. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 28 minutes ago, PeterW said: Not that difficult to do, but finding someone with a decent 165mm hole saw may be a challenge !! From memory, you have a pretty decent insulation level, and one of the larger single room units would work ok as the cooling load would be less than the finger in air calculators. Also worth bearing in mind that as long as the rate of cooling is more than the heat gain, the temperature will reduce..! It's just how rapidly is the question. I'm pretty sure that @lizzie's house is pretty much all timber, with a part rendered external skin. I cut 150mm holes in our walls using a jigsaw and that made a pretty neat job. The only difficult bit will be the internal holes, as the ducts need to be well-sealed to the vapour tight board that sits 50mm back from the inner plasterboard layer. The way I'd tackle this would be to fit the template to the plasterboard layer and drill long pilot holes right through to the outside. I'd then cut an oversize cut out in the plasterboard, to expose the inner skin. After cutting the duct holes in that, right through the wall, I'd seal up around the ducts inside, through the larger cut out in the plasterboard. I'd then fill in the cut out (which will end up hidden behind the unit) with plywood, screwed to the service void battens, with some added noggins to secure it where needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 24 minutes ago, JSHarris said: I'm pretty sure that @lizzie's house is pretty much all timber, with a part rendered external skin. I cut 150mm holes in our walls using a jigsaw and that made a pretty neat job. The only difficult bit will be the internal holes, as the ducts need to be well-sealed to the vapour tight board that sits 50mm back from the inner plasterboard layer. The way I'd tackle this would be to fit the template to the plasterboard layer and drill long pilot holes right through to the outside. I'd then cut an oversize cut out in the plasterboard, to expose the inner skin. After cutting the duct holes in that, right through the wall, I'd seal up around the ducts inside, through the larger cut out in the plasterboard. I'd then fill in the cut out (which will end up hidden behind the unit) with plywood, screwed to the service void battens, with some added noggins to secure it where needed. spot on @JSHarris Im going to keep this advice for a crib sheet for whichever poor unfortunate I find to come and do the job under my eagle eye?Any volunteers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 How much of a breeze would one of these generate outside. Does it need to be kept away from where people? eg If one (different room - S Facing potential downstairs bedroom) came out into the open front porch would it blow the postman away? Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Ferdinand said: How much of a breeze would one of these generate outside. Does it need to be kept away from where people? eg If one (different room - S Facing potential downstairs bedroom) came out into the open front porch would it blow the postman away? Ferdinand Very little. Most of the time the fan on the outside unit of ours is barely ticking over, with no noticeable breeze from it when you're more than a couple of feet away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) OK. Couple of hours looking. I am *not* shelling out the best part of 2k without some careful research, especially as I am so wallspace-constrained. Can anyone recommend a decent portable 1 room aircon unit that I can have as a holding strategy this summer? I guess that - like sports cars - this is something to buy pre-owned in the winter when someone has just barked their shin on it. (Has anyone installed something and now has an unwnted portable unit?) ? Any comments most welcome. But damn that puts me back to hoses out of windows ? . Ferdinand Edited July 25, 2019 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: OK. Couple of hours looking. I am *not* shelling out the best part of 2k without some careful research, especially as I am so wallspace-constrained. Can anyone recommend a decent portable 1 room aircon unit that I can have as a holding strategy this summer? I guess that - like sports cars - this is something to buy pre-owned in the winter when someone has just barked their shin on it. (Has anyone installed something and now has an unwnted portable unit?) ? Any comments most welcome. But damn that puts me back to hoses out of windows ? . Ferdinand I have a spare portable unit, that sooner or later I will get around to semi-permanently installing in my workshop (maybe). The snag is that I'm a fair way away from you, and the thing is fairly heavy and bulky. It's nothing fancy, it was something I bought a few years ago from B&Q when we had a particularly hot spell. It also needs the condensate container emptying ever few hours, as it's not one of the ones that ejects the condensate out with the hot exhaust. It looks a bit like this unit: https://www.aircondirect.co.uk/p/1163189/electriq-12000-btu-quiet-air-conditioner-portable-for-rooms-up-to-30-sqm You're welcome to borrow it through this summer, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 it is reported on the grapevine at the local timber merchant that Appliances Direct who are 4 miles away have temporarily hiked the prices of their portable air con units. No idea if it’s true, and not going to find out. Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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