Thin Film Solar Panels

[SlivenClod]

Has anyone used/got experience of thin film solar cells? 

I am getting resistance form HWMBO that PV panels are ugly "I'm not having those on my nice new house!"

The plan, at the moment, is for raised seam metal roofing and I understand this works well with TFSP and I might get it past the design guru!!

TIA

[PeterW]

Aren’t the efficiencies on these only 3-5% versus 19% for standard panels..??

 

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Yes, the efficiency of thin film panels is a fair bit lower.  Worth looking at ordinary black panels, as these are almost indistinguishable from thin film when viewed from ground level.  We have black panels set into our roof:

 

 

 

[Triassic]

I read n the news that - New figures out today show installations this quarter at the lowest level since 2010, a 98% drop compared to average 2015 levels.

 

looks like it’s only few new builders who are installing solar! 

[SteamyTea]

Probably partly due to the abolition of FiT and new system not up and running yet.

There is also the issue that once you have installed a system, you cannot put another one in as the roof is already full.

 

DECC spreadsheet here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/819771/Solar_photovoltaics_deployment_June_2019.xlsx

[ProDave]

People like me that installed second hand panels won't be counted in those figures though.

 

As I have said many times you have to buy the kit very cheap and DIY install it to be financially viable without the FIT. the average person that wants a turnkey solar PV system installed for them will likely find it is not financially viable.

 

And the export payment scheme is a political gesture so people can't complain about giving away electricity for free.  Even if I could sign up to it, I would have been paid about £5 so far this year.

[SteamyTea]

  On 27/07/2019 at 09:01, ProDave said:

People like me that installed second hand panels won't be counted in those figures though.

 

As I have said many times you have to buy the kit very cheap and DIY install it to be financially viable without the FIT. the average person that wants a turnkey solar PV system installed for them will likely find it is not financially viable.

 

And the export payment scheme is a political gesture so people can't complain about giving away electricity for free.  Even if I could sign up to it, I would have been paid about £5 so far this year.

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You keep mentioning this, but you are saving on imports, anywhere between 12p and 24p/kWh, depending on your tariff.

If you save 2 MWh on import, that is somewhere between £240 a year and £480 a year.

Not to be sniffed at.

[Stones]

The saving from diverting excess to DHW is not as great given @ProDave would otherwise just be using an ASHP with CoP of 2.3 ish

[ProDave]

  On 27/07/2019 at 15:08, Stones said:

The saving from diverting excess to DHW is not as great given @ProDave would otherwise just be using an ASHP with CoP of 2.3 ish

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Correct.  But the way the diverter works it it only sends power to the immersion when nothing else is using it, and even at hot water savings rates taking into account the COP, it is still better than 5.5p per unit.

[romario]

  On 27/07/2019 at 09:01, ProDave said:

People like me that installed second hand panels won't be counted in those figures though.

 

As I have said many times you have to buy the kit very cheap and DIY install it to be financially viable without the FIT. the average person that wants a turnkey solar PV system installed for them will likely find it is not financially viable.

 

And the export payment scheme is a political gesture so people can't complain about giving away electricity for free.  Even if I could sign up to it, I would have been paid about £5 so far this year.

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Hi Dave,

I've been thinking of doing the same on my new build because of the low FIT.

Have you considered getting batteries for storing unused electricity.

I came across recently an idea of using electric car as a battery storage but haven't looked into that yet.

[ProDave]

  On 27/07/2019 at 17:45, romario said:

Hi Dave,

I've been thinking of doing the same on my new build because of the low FIT.

Have you considered getting batteries for storing unused electricity.

I came across recently an idea of using electric car as a battery storage but haven't looked into that yet.

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In my case I am finding there is little "waste" that could be usefully captured by batteries.  About the only time we export any power is around mid day when the inverter can be producing anything up to 3.68Kw and our immersion heater is only about 2.8Kw so there can be 600W of surplus that isn't used if there is nothing else on in the house at the time.

 

Obviously once you go over 3.68Kw there is more likely to be a significant amount of surplus power that you can't self use in real time, so battery storage may start to make a lot more sense for a larger array.

[Jeremy Harris]

  On 27/07/2019 at 17:45, romario said:

I came across recently an idea of using electric car as a battery storage but haven't looked into that yet.

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The really big problem with using an electric car as home battery storage is the impact it has on the life of the car battery.  Electric car batteries aren't optimised for a very high cycle life, as they don't really need to be. 

 

A car with a range of 200 miles that does 10,000 miles a year is only going to cycle its battery about 50 times a year.  Over ten years it will cycle the battery maybe 500 times.  At most a car battery needs a life of maybe 1000 cycles, perhaps less.

 

A home battery will be cycled at least once per day, perhaps twice a day if it's also taking advantage of cheap rate E7 electricity for part of the year.  It's quite possible for a home battery to see around 500 cycles per year, ten times more than an electric car battery. 

 

An electric car battery used as a home battery does have the advantage of a much greater capacity than needed, which reduces the cycling problem to a fair extent, but it's still far from ideal to shorten the life of the car battery by using it at home, in my view.

 

There are high cycle life batteries around, that aren't ideal for cars, as they have a lower energy density, but these batteries are ideally suited for use at home, where a bit of extra weight or volume isn't really important.  LiFePO₄ cells have maybe 4 to 5 times the cycle life of the LiNiMnCoO₂cells that would be pretty typical for car use.  

[SteamyTea]

I think that part of the reason to use EV batteries connected to the grid is to give the impression that energy storage is cheap and versatile. Really just a method of shifting the cost to some consumers.

[ProDave]

  On 28/07/2019 at 11:22, SteamyTea said:

I think that part of the reason to use EV batteries connected to the grid is to give the impression that energy storage is cheap and versatile. Really just a method of shifting the cost to some gulibie / ignorant  consumers.

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Corrected that for you.

[SteamyTea]

  On 28/07/2019 at 11:44, ProDave said:

Corrected that for you.

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And greedy.