Tile leveling system question

[8ball]

Hi guys, I have never ever done any kind of tiling before and my tiler cant even be bothered to quote for the bathroom so I'm doing it myself. So far I have purchased:

 

14 sqm of 600x300x9mm Porcelain floor and wall tiles.

2 x 20Kg bags of tile adhesive

1000 3mm tile spacers

Diamond wet tile cutter

6/10mm notched trowel

Laser level

 

My neighbour reckons tiling is simple but from all the posts I have read there is more to it than meets the eye so I am looking to make things as easy as possible for myself so was thinking about using a tile leveling system such as Premtool. The thing I don't understand about the system and tiling is this, I have read over and over again about getting maximum contact with the adhesive between the wall/floor and the tile with a nice even spread of adhesive BUT say you lay one tile and insert your levelers and then lay the next tile and tap in the little wedges to align the tiles but surely this pulls/pushes on one tile or the other. I can only see that one of those 2 tiles will be pulled away from its adhesive, not completely but enough surely to weaken the contact between the tile and wall.

 

Anyone have any advice and experience of using these systems and is it worth it for a one off job

[ToughButterCup]

I know less than nowt. But can offer this

[scottishjohn]

having done some in the past --larger areas of floor without them  -

I  would always be using tile leveling spacers now

 the main thing is to really check your floor is level and no dips in it BEFORE you start 

If there are then self leveling compound ,or you will be using mega amounts of adhesive for tiles to fill in dips  to  get them right 

I speak from experience  of making really new boy mistake on my biggest floor 6m X 5m--took twice the amount of adhesive ,cos it had dips caused by crappy builder not getting all joists same height 

but that did not stick out when it had underlay +carpet.

you need a long piece of  something straight to check it as well a as 4ft level ,then you can use minimum adhesive and it will be good +no worries about full contact 

remember if you start with 8mm under first tiles --you will be that at least for the rest --

so if its flat and level you could get away with 6mm --thats a third less adhesive !!

 my other suggestion is do not use light coloured grout ,unless you like to keep sealing it ,as it will show up any discolouration if its light 

 usual one is PEE stains around the bog from us men not hitting the target .

dark grout --do not show up the same 

Edited June 27, 2019 by scottishjohn

[8ball]

1 hour ago, scottishjohn said:

having done some in the past --larger areas of floor without them  -

I  would always be using tile leveling spacers now

 the main thing is to really check your floor is level and no dips in it BEFORE you start 

If there are then self leveling compound ,or you will be using mega amounts of adhesive for tiles to fill in dips  to  get them right 

I speak from experience  of making really new boy mistake on my biggest floor 6m X 5m--took twice the amount of adhesive ,cos it had dips caused by crappy builder not getting all joists same height 

but that did not stick out when it had underlay +carpet.

you need a long piece of  something straight to check it as well a as 4ft level ,then you can use minimum adhesive and it will be good +no worries about full contact 

remember if you start with 8mm under first tiles --you will be that at least for the rest --

so if its flat and level you could get away with 6mm --thats a third less adhesive !!

 my other suggestion is do not use light coloured grout ,unless you like to keep sealing it ,as it will show up any discolouration if its light 

 usual one is PEE stains around the bog from us men not hitting the target .

dark grout --do not show up the same 

 

The tiling in question is not that much really as its quite a small bathroom and I,m only doing the walls of the shower and the bathroom floor and that's it. The walls are quite wonky even after being plastered but the floor is not too bad as I ripped the old one out and replaced with 18mm ply + noggins + glued and screwed.

 

The walls are my main concern with the tiling as they are quite large and heavy and am terrified they are going to fall straight off the wall after a couple of hours, I'm setting up a mock board outside as the weather has got better so I can have a mess around without doing any damage so hopefully that will get me part of the way along the learning curve.

 

I'm going with a dark grey grout as my tiles are a dark grey/ slate stone look so hopefully no discoloration in the future.

 

As a last note are these any good for hiding the 3mm tile spacers ....oh hang on do you still use spacers if you use a tile leveling system?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01L4EBSD8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2RQNWBS1Z4W2O&psc=1

 

 

Going to start on the long back wall 1st the do the 2 shorter side walls after, planning on starting from the middle of the wall on each occasion.

[Temp]

I've never used a tile leveling system nor seen a professional use one. I do however use spacers to keep joints uniform.

 

The basic principle of tiling is that a notched trowel is used to form ridges and furrows in the adhesive. These allow the tile to be pressed into the adhesive a varying amount by providing somewhere for the excess adhesive to go. Within reason, the deeper the notches the more you can adjust the height. Don't hold the trowel at too shallow an angle as that reduces the depth. Aim for uniformity when applying adhesive.

 

I was taught how to use a rubber faced wooden block to level tiles with those around them and find this works very well on both floor and wall tiles. The technique is to rest one end of the block on the/a previous tile and lift and tap the other end onto the new tile. Must make a video one day.

 

 

 

[8ball]

6 minutes ago, Temp said:

I've never used a tile leveling system nor seen a professional use one. I do however use spacers to keep joints uniform.

 

The basic principle of tiling is that a notched trowel is used to form ridges and furrows in the adhesive. These allow the tile to be pressed into the adhesive a varying amount by providing somewhere for the excess adhesive to go. Within reason, the deeper the notches the more you can adjust the height. Don't hold the trowel at too shallow an angle as that reduces the depth. Aim for uniformity when applying adhesive.

 

I was taught how to use a rubber faced wooden block to level tiles with those around them and find this works very well on both floor and wall tiles. The technique is to rest one end of the block on the/a previous tile and lift and tap the other end onto the new tile. Must make a video one day.

 

 

 

 

I've read about the rubber faced wooden block technique  and sounds really good, a video on how to do it would be fantastic....hint hint ?

 

As in my post above I think I'm going to set up a mock board outside tomorrow and have a go with some old tiles I have, just got to go for it I think and stop faffing about?

[Temp]

Heavy wall tiles should not normally fall off but sometimes try to slide down a bit. That's why I use two spacers per tile to keep uniform gaps.

 

Fix a batten to the wall for first row of tiles to rest on. Should be bit less than half a tile up to reduce waste. Tile in rows going up. When set remove batten and cut tiles to fit between bottom row and floor/bath.

[8ball]

7 minutes ago, Temp said:

Heavy wall tiles should not normally fall off but sometimes try to slide down a bit. That's why I use two spacers per tile to keep uniform gaps.

 

Fix a batten to the wall for first row of tiles to rest on. Should be bit less than half a tile up to reduce waste. Tile in rows going up. When set remove batten and cut tiles to fit between bottom row and floor/bath.

 

I wished I could do the batten technique but I'm installing the tiles as in the pic below

 

 

I'm wondering how much gap I should leave between the stone resin shower tray and the bottom of the 1st row of tiles?

[nod]

The tile levelling systems are ok for floors but not necessary for walls 

16 minutes ago, 8ball said:

 

The tiling in question is not that much really as its quite a small bathroom and I,m only doing the walls of the shower and the bathroom floor and that's it. The walls are quite wonky even after being plastered but the floor is not too bad as I ripped the old one out and replaced with 18mm ply + noggins + glued and screwed.

 

The walls are my main concern with the tiling as they are quite large and heavy and am terrified they are going to fall straight off the wall after a couple of hours, I'm setting up a mock board outside as the weather has got better so I can have a mess around without doing any damage so hopefully that will get me part of the way along the learning curve.

 

I'm going with a dark grey grout as my tiles are a dark grey/ slate stone look so hopefully no discoloration in the future.

 

As a last note are these any good for hiding the 3mm tile spacers ....oh hang on do you still use spacers if you use a tile leveling system?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01L4EBSD8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2RQNWBS1Z4W2O&psc=1

 

 

Going to start on the long back wall 1st the do the 2 shorter side walls after, planning on starting from the middle of the wall on each occasion.

You need to set out from your window wall Try not to leave any nasty cuts 

I normally set out from the centre of the window Regardless off weather the window is central 

[8ball]

8 minutes ago, nod said:

The tile levelling systems are ok for floors but not necessary for walls 

You need to set out from your window wall Try not to leave any nasty cuts 

I normally set out from the centre of the window Regardless off weather the window is central 

 

I am not tiling the window reveal and only tiling a small area to the  left and below the window as in pic below so I thought starting from the middle of the long wall was the best option even though it gives me 4.9cm widths at each end.

 

Why are the tile leveling systems not good for walls as most demos have been on tiling walls?

 

[8ball]

I'm wondering how much gap I should leave between the stone resin shower tray and the bottom of the 1st row of tiles?

[Mr Punter]

53 minutes ago, 8ball said:

I wished I could do the batten technique but I'm installing the tiles as in the pic below

 

 

I would suggest the brick pattern is much easier to have running horizontal.

 

Work out where your cuts will go so that you don't have little slithers of tile.

 

You may need tile trim for the exposed edge by the window.

[Temp]

Quick vid showing how I use a rubber faced block or blatt to level tiles. After spreading and notching the adhesive (not shown!) I place tiles in rows. Then one end of the block is placed on the "previous tile" and the other end is tapped/pressed on the "new tile". On a wall you normally work upwards in rows from a batten, on a floor you work towards yourself so you back out of the room. Normally I would also use tile spacers to get uniform grout lines.

 

 

[8ball]

9 minutes ago, Temp said:

Quick vid showing how I use a rubber faced block or blatt to level tiles. After spreading and notching the adhesive (not shown!) I place tiles in rows. Then one end of the block is placed on the "previous tile" and the other end is tapped/pressed on the "new tile". On a wall you normally work upwards in rows from a batten, on a floor you work towards yourself so you back out of the room. Normally I would also use tile spacers to get uniform grout lines.

 

 

 

Absolutely brilliant, thanks so much for the time and effort Temp I really appreciate it........Top Man ???️

[Temp]

1 hour ago, 8ball said:

 

I wished I could do the batten technique but I'm installing the tiles as in the pic below

 

 

I'm wondering how much gap I should leave between the stone resin shower tray and the bottom of the 1st row of tiles?

 

Never tried that. Google found this...

 

https://www.tilersforums.com/threads/vertical-brick-bond-advice.78243/

 

If the top of the tray is dead level I don't see why you can't work up from that. I would leave same gap as a regular grout line (eg use tile spaces to raise lower row of tiles off tray).

 

[Onoff]

5 hours ago, 8ball said:

My neighbour reckons tiling is simple

 

No, it's a c***!

 

Worst job in my bathroom by far. Mind I'd never done it.

[8ball]

6 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

No, it's a c***!

 

Worst job in my bathroom by far. Mind I'd never done it.

 

I must admit my neighbour is full of s***? but he has a lot of tools?️ for loan so I put up with it?

[Temp]

40 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

Work out where your cuts will go so that you don't have little slithers of tile.

 

+100000

 

Planning the layout is key. Sometimes it's better to have cut tiles at both start and end of a run to avoid a slither one end. 

 

Ditto with holes for things like shower mixers. Sometimes it's best to arrange the tiles so you are drilling in the middle, other times you want to arrange the hole to be on a grout line so you can notch the two tiles either side. Anything to avoid having to drill near an edge.

 

 

[Onoff]

38 minutes ago, Temp said:

other times you want to arrange the hole to be on a grout line so you can notch the two tiles either side.

 

Be brave!

 

 

[8ball]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

 

Be brave!

 

 

 

Mad Skillz in a street stylee ?

[nod]

As a tiling contractor I’ve never seen anyone use the levelling systems I suspect it would be expensive and slow on large areas 

I and the tilers that work for me use spacers I don’t allow growing the spacers in I was caught out on one job 

Take your time and keep checking 

[Declan52]

Get the pencil and tape and level out and draw your tile pattern on the wall. Take a step back and have a look. This will also give you an idea on how the last tile will look. Can you not start with the middle of the tile in the middle of the wall do you don't end up with such a tiny bit of tile at the edge. Once you have settled on your pattern position go over your lines with a black marker and this will help you keep them plumb as you go up.

Don't mix too much adhesive as it goes off pretty quick. Slow and steady and keep checking your tiles are not lipping out as you go up. I would do it 1 strip at a time starting with the middle strip. Make sure it's plumb as both sides going out will be spaced of it so if the middle strip is wonky the other rows will be as well.  It will help you keep the tiles from wondering off.