zoothorn

Timber balcony > Extension.

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It might be worth you recapping/clarifying what you are asking for in this thread? The original post only has one question ('any timber minds out there?') and given you've only had positive vibes from planning and have got the basis of a design what are you asking for from here? If you are specific with questions you will likely get more specific answers. 

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I am reading this thread with interest.

 

We included a balcony in both planning and building warrant. It is not built yet and will be one of the last jobs to be done so I can't add much to the topic.  Ours will be fixed to the back of the house and supported on 2 timber posts, probably with glass balustrades so as not to block the views.

 

I don't see it as a difficult thing to construct.  Ours will be big enough for a couple of tables and chairs to sit out on.

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On 03/07/2019 at 10:49, PeterW said:

 

..clearly state in K2 that guarding is required for any platform greater in height that 600mm. 

3 - In terms of design, one or two of us have given some guidance, but tbh until you actually say how big it is, no-one can tell you how to potentially build it. We have made recommendations, but it feels like you want someone to design it for you. That's not going to happen as none of us would take the liability for it being wrong !!

 

This is not a simple project. It has working at height, structural stability, and a host of other parts that make it bloody complex !!

 

But Ive never suggested it wouldn't have a guard rail. I would never consider, nor would anyone, a balcony without one.. Ive suggested the opposite in fact by way of pic eg's: all have guard rails. I really don't understand this.

 

I certainly don't expect anyone to design it, I've just asked for help to design just a basic 'sketch' plan at this stage so that I can add to a non material ammendment. Later, I'll need to design properly & put it in detail (as will the whole extention afaict) for the detailed B.Regs application. If I can't get a basic plan together like any of the simple eg's I put up.. I'll have to employ someone to do so, but reluctantly & frustratingly for such a simple construction that negates the very purpose of this whole forum in my view: to encourage, help, & all to do with self-building.

 

[can anyone see the 4 photos in the 1st post? Ive no idea if they are visible to anyone bar myself]

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Look more power to your elbow but you'll get an honest appraisal here, warts and all. And yes we can see your pics.

 

My personal experience of NMAs (English LA) is that they need to be drawn to a recognised scale and quality to the original PP drawings - to save money I tweaked my own planning drawings sans architect to submit a NMA for slightly larger front windows and solar PV on the roof, however first pass was rejected as I got the scale wrong.

 

So you many need more than a simple sketch.

 

Also be prepared for the NMA to be rejected (as mine ultimately was) should the planner deem it to be a 'material amendment' and therefore require full PP.

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On 03/07/2019 at 13:25, ProDave said:

I am reading this thread with interest.

 

We included a balcony in both planning and building warrant. It is not built yet and will be one of the last jobs to be done so I can't add much to the topic.  Ours will be fixed to the back of the house and supported on 2 timber posts, probably with glass balustrades so as not to block the views.

 

I don't see it as a difficult thing to construct.  Ours will be big enough for a couple of tables and chairs to sit out on.

 

Thanks ProDave- this concurs with my thoughts. So in your example, who designed it & basically how did you know what to do? are there any pages you found to follow as eg's you could pass on, or any tips for a basic design such as this one? I'd imagine you didn't employ anyone to design it, you just did it yourself.

 

At the moment on my blank sheet, I've got 3 timber posts on concrete footings, metal 'shoe' bracket things connecting them. The posts will continue up past deck to form the frame for the guard rail. But that's all I've got.. I can't proceed onwards at the moment.

 

I could just assume onwards: a horizontal beam attatched onto the extension, below Fr.windows? some opposite horizontal beams between the 3 posts > & span across with decking? but I'm bound to be wrong, or there's a simpler way, or not that's not the right basic idea at all zoot you flamin eejet!

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4 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

Look more power to your elbow but you'll get an honest appraisal here, warts and all. And yes we can see your pics.

 

My personal experience of NMAs (English LA) is that they need to be drawn to a recognised scale and quality to the original PP drawings - to save money I tweaked my own planning drawings sans architect to submit a NMA for slightly larger front windows and solar PV on the roof, however first pass was rejected as I got the scale wrong.

 

So you many need more than a simple sketch.

 

Also be prepared for the NMA to be rejected (as mine ultimately was) should the planner deem it to be a 'material amendment' and therefore require full PP.

 

Hi Bitpipe. Yes all understood. I had in mind to copy my plans to the T too (the 1:50 fairly basic plans my architectural blahblah chap used for PP approval I got).. with the added balcony, so yes agreed I do need to to it properly & to scale etc. But just once a basic idea of how one is made 1st: this is the 1st step I'm asking for help on, just that for now. Then I'm off: I can follow up/ gather info, re-draw up design properly & add to the nma.

 

NMA/ PP in wales I honestly think is a quite different to england.. much more likely to be approved, more easy-going, even opposition less likely (I had not -one- n'bor object, even them being utterly awful sods to me for 3 yrs).

 

Thanks zoot

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40 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

At the moment on my blank sheet, I've got 3 timber posts on concrete footings, metal 'shoe' bracket things connecting them. The posts will continue up past deck to form the frame for the guard rail. But that's all I've got.. I can't proceed onwards at the moment.

 

If you read my previous post you will see that the Codes of Practice rule out having the support posts carry on to support the handrail. They give you all the information you need for a competent design.

 

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Ok I've had a rethink & I will do this balcony project (in time/ & most probably) once the extension built: asking for PP just for this addition next year. Tbh I can't afford it even at £500 timber cost at the moment/ just got main extention quote in. Also can better judge size etc.

 

I'll come back to this project/ & thread- very useful info & most helpful replies. I still think its a relatively simple addition & good idea.

 

Best reference pics yet (say 3/4 of this width, I saw locally): ideal D, & good approx H tho mine would be 30cm lower still at 2m H..

002.JPG

006.JPG

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On 03/07/2019 at 12:33, zoothorn said:

Peter, I can only think then that welsh PP then is different if Ive spoken to the PP officer himself & he's said, as I've explained.

 

The Welsh system is identical to the English one in terms of its response to material/non-material amendments (we work as Planning Consultants in both countries).

There is no clear-cut definition of what is a 'material' amendment and what is 'non-material', though.

 

Peter is right in as much as I would have expected any functional (large enough to walk out onto and sit down/spend time on) balcony would be treated as a material minor amendment. As a general rule, Planners are very cautious about the scope of NMMAs, and they also tend to be very 'anti' balconies or raised decks (for the understandable reason that they're one of the biggest causes of neighbour complaints and disputes that fall within the scope of the planning system)

 

Your Planning Officer is being incredibly generous (and perhaps more than a little incompetent) in accepting it as an NMMA, but perhaps he knows the site well enough to judge that it genuinely doesn't impact on neighbours in terms of overlooking and cannot be seen from the public domain. The good news is that, if this really is the case, there is no right or process of public consultation with a NMMA - it will be entirely down to your Planning Officer's judgement. The bad news is that (unlike full planning permission or a material minor amendment) there's no right of appeal to that decision, either.

 

As others have said, it very definitely falls within the scope of Building Regulations, however, and one point to bear in mind here (which is relevant to your question of basic construction) is that any framed structure will need a structural engineer's calculations to support the application. These can wipe out any cost advantage of doing it entirely yourself, so you might, on that basis, consider going to an established manufacturer of (say) oak framed buildings for a 'kit', as they will have 'tame' structural engineers who will do it cheaply, with the cost being built into the price. Since they will also be buying materials a lot cheaper than you can, the overall cost is likely to be much lower, this way, than if you DIY, and you can leave them to worry about the technical design of balustrades, stairs etc.

 

If you're in Wales, you might consider someone like Benfield ATT for example (Disclosure: I used to be their Design and Technical Manager/Director, though we didn't part on the best of terms, so I'm certainly not biased in their favour!!).

 

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@Sensus thanks for this reply: very useful info I'll go over it again. I'm coming back to this thread (missed this ^ last post end august) at this stage to say I've just had permission granted, for the full balcony with steps. Great news & also I added 120mm to build on it too.

 

Whether or not I'll afford the whole-hog design (+ steps) or just the balcony we'll see.. but major thanks to JSHarris for his input which undoubtadly helped my case. I think the PP officer was generous tbh Sensus: I get impression as I was very courteous & asked a few diligent Q's his way over the 1.5 yrs, he appreciated my efforts.. plus the majority it'll overlook is actually a horse field, the main reason. I am surprised tho!

 

So I'll come back to this once the extention built.. but now I can get the french doors opening out for definite.

 

 

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