Thorfun

So you’re saying that because I have a basement and 2 storeys above ground EVERY door in the house needs to have intumescent strips and auto closures on them as well as being FD30 doors?

But true fire doors need automatic closures. Our BCO only said we need those between garage and house and also only mentioned intumescent strips for the garage to house doors as well. We don’t need those on the other internal rooms, just need FD30 doors.

but a normal FD30 internal door doesn't need the intumescent strip does it? only the ones between the house and garage do I thought

bloody hell! glazed fire doors a <expletive deleted> expensive! 😭

thanks for the help all. just found out after our BCO Visit that they need to be fire rated as we have a basement the house is classed as having 3-storeys and so all internal doors must be fire rated. 😭 I'm now thinking about buying the fixings and getting our chippie to make a bespoke bifold door set our of glazed fire doors. surely it's just a top hung runner and some pivot hinges? will google it and see what I can find

ours wasn't. worktop guys came in and siliconed the worktop to it. although they were so quick i didn't even see it happen! but i'm sure there's silicone there. 😆

careful. at this rate you might be finished by 2026!

right. got it now. thank you.

thanks and makes sense now. 🙂

please let me know the lateral stability of the doors when operational with just that single screw

so you would put, for example, each Green wire in one side of the pair on each level and then a small jumper cable on the other side of the pair from L1 -> L2 -> L3 -> L4 etc to join the levels together?

morning. either of you know if these Appleby round back boxes can be used instead of the Loxone ones? https://www.electrical2go.co.uk/appleby-circular-dry-lining-box-35mm-sb639.html they're only 35mm deep which is all I've room for in some places. (25mm service cavity and 15mm plasterboard&skim).

would you not use an interconnected block for these like @joth has? i would've thought you just want to basically connect ALL the tree connections together and then a single feed to the tree extension?

qq @joth (although i think i know the answer) is the reason the brown and brown/white cables are on separate terminal blocks because the 'pairs' on each level of the teminal block are connected together? therefore you can only have a cable of the same 'colour' on one level? so you can't put brown AND brown/white on the same level pair?

cheers Rob. the info you sent me was invaluable and I look at it a lot to try and get my head around it all. I think it's a case of once I get started the pieces will all fall in to place. but I'm glad that I have figured out that I don't need to buy 32 8-way blocks as that was going to be very expensive. I think I've got a handle on it now though so will pull the trigger soon and purchase what I need to start the cabinet build. out of interest, why do you choose Wago over the Weidmuller that Loxone supply?

I was going to buy them individually as you've previously suggested from sites other than direct from Loxone. I just don't need 20 of these if I'm not terminating every pair! thanks. the problem is I have so many things going around my head that I start to get a handle on something and then my attention is taken away on to another subject and by the time I come back to it I've forgotten everything! like I said, I have re-read this whole thread numerous times. maybe one day it will stick! 🤣

yeah. thanks. your interconnected terminal blocks is what I was basing my calculations on. with the power and tree feeds at the bottom of L1 as you say. I like that idea very much.

@jothI think was confused as in the photo of your cab you have a twisted pair across 2 x terminal blocks.

oh! right! the I was completely confused. I thought the 8-way blocks were only 16 connectors. I didn't realise they were pairs! in that case I need even fewer than I thought. this day just keeps on getting better. 🤣

I remember you saying that before but I like the way interconnected and standard ones are different colour. so I can tell from the colour which is which when I've forgotten years down the line! I was leaving the last 1 free for the internal wiring, e.g. the actual 24V cable and tree extension cable. so that would leave 30 out of the 32 in 2 x TBs available. so I guess it really should've been /15! coz I'm special and thought they'd need power. 🤦‍♂️ guess I only need 3 separated terminal blocks then.

yeah. I might leave it to my chippie to do! 😆

so if I've done my maths correctly (which I probably haven't!) then I calculate I need 6 x interconnected 8-way terminal blocks and 5 x separated 8-way terminal blocks. I came to that conclusion by calculating that one cable serves a touch tree switch and a presence sensor in each room. so that is 2 x twisted pairs so 4 connectors. I have 15 of those cables. 15 x 4 = 60 I've 6 cables that will just run a single Tree device so that's 6 x 4 = 24 so that's a total of 84 interconnected connectors so 84 / 14 = 6 Then I have 10 x cables running retractive switches which need separated TBs so that's 4 connectors each so that's a further 10 x 4 = 40 / 8 = 5 separated. that seems a lot more inexpensive! I know it'll be a massive ball-ache to add extras later and rewire should I decide to add other sensors etc but this 'should' see us to be able to move in to the house and have the important things working. I'll probably by an extra one of each anyway for good luck.

I'm just concerned that they won't fit in my cabinet! according to this data sheet they're quite big. I might stick with the 8-way terminal blocks even though it'll end up more expensive. but these Wago double-deck terminal blocks only show 2 x connectors? I can't see an earth on there at all.

afaik there is no 'pin', it's just screws. which is why I'm sure that screwing through the tile will be enough and the adhesive/resin is just belt and braces. yeah, this could work if I can use an angle grinder to cut a suitably sized hole without damaging the tile that's visible. could be problematic due to the circular nature of the angle grinder disc and the proximity to the jamb. but I think that's something I wouldn't know until I got the door on-site and measured the pivot etc. on a plus side my stroppy email to BCO seems to have worked as he's visiting site tomorrow to see where we're at and I can bombard him with questions!

I'm back on the subject of terminal blocks again and struggling to get my head around what I will need. I've started a spreadsheet with all my cables and I have read and re-read this thread and just when I think I get a handle on it it all slips away again. Cat6a cables I have 32 green Cat6a cables! and if I go down @joth's route of terminating all of them in the cabinet then that will be a LOT of 8-way terminal blocks which are expensive. so I am now thinking of just terminating those I need in the cabinet and living with a mess of unused twisted pairs within the cabinet. although, correct me if I'm wrong, all those devices are tree and need 24V so can I wire each cables G/GW and O/OW pairs to interconnected blocks and then run the power and tree interface cables to the last row on the blocks. that way I can terminate 15 cables per interconnected terminal block, right? so for 15 cables I would need 4 interconnected terminal blocks. 2 per twisted pair. Then for the DI connections for retractive switches and the like I use non-interconnected blocks and can therefore terminate 4 twisted pairs per terminal block. am I on the right lines here? one more question on the Cat6a cable termination. with the number of cables I have is there any benefit to going with a 16-level terminal block or are they too big for the cabinet? 230V Power I'm struggling here to know what I want/need. @Rob99 mentioned using the Wago terminal blocks 2-layer and 3-layer. the Weidmuller ones on the Loxone website that @Dan F suggested are 3 terminals on one-side but only 2 on the other. I presume these are used when there is no earth connection required on the internal side? which I guess is never, right? from what I can tell all of the extensions are just positive and negative. even so, is it not better to get the Wago 3-layer ones just in case an earth terminal is needed? especially as they seem to be cheaper. I'm struggling to understand the benefits of the Weidmuller ones over the Wago ones? Also, why/when would the 2-layer terminal blocks be used? I understand for speakers no problem at all as there's only a +ve and -ve but for anything powered, even my low voltage leds will have 1.5mm twin and earth. One final thing on the power terminal blocks, I presume I would need these cross connectors (or the Wago equivalent) to spread the power across the terminal blocks? my apologies for all the questions but I'm just trying to get my head around it so I can reduce the mistakes and associated costs with those mistakes! cash flow is extremely tight coming to the end of our build and I can't just throw money at this and need to be frugal and sensible.