puntloos

Thanks @Declan52 for explaining it to a newbie. Last very dumb question then, what's the purpose of skim (since it's such a generic word it's hard to google). I was expecting 'skim' to be 'paint'? But assuming that "sand+cement" already gives a nice flat surface, why apply another layer of "cream" (assuming it's not color?)

Wait, I think you gents are contradicting each other? @joe90: top layer gypsum plaster (or do you mean sandcement plaster?) and a 5mm sandcement skim (and then block) or @Declan52: top layer Sand Cement (15mm) with a 5mm skim of some type of other material? (and then block)

Ah but that means 2 layers of plaster, or is the 'gypsum coat' super-thin?

Is it the 'plaster' or the 'board' part that's rubbish? I did a little research but perhaps gone in the wrong direction: https://www.hipcouch.com/magazine/gypsum-plaster-vs-sand-cement-plaster Sandcement render doesn't seem too bad an idea, but internally it sounds like there's some downsides if you want to have it smooth. Thank you, sounds fairly logical Hence the sandcement everywhere? Mortar snots. You learn something everyday. Good tip, thanks! HK33 (200mm) ? I think they're 5.56mm. 435 I can live with. Greenhouse effect is very high though - strange? I seem to remember concrete/cement isn't great?

OK you've convinced me.. how about: 15mm plasterboard and skim, 100mm block standard mediums, 200 mm rockwool (with split lintels?) 100mm block standard mediums (with the sand cement slurry) 15mm render 430mm total.

Yeah I heard similar things. You can of course be very principled about maximising U value, but a slightly overdimensioned heating/cooling ASHP will be able to cope nicely. (or so I'm told) As for aircrete - https://skill-builder.uk/aircrete-blocks - apparently when done wrong (ha, back to my 'how do you find a skilled person') they might crack, but from this article it sounds I could consider the internal blocks to be aircrete and the external ones 'standard'..

Ah, OK, (why not?) Anyway how about this one then: 15mm plasterboard and skim, 100mm block standard mediums, 170mm rockwool 100mm block standard mediums 15mm render That should retain the 0.18ish, no? Or is 0.18 too high (are U-values an exponential thing? Seems like an awful lot of struggle for a few percentage points extra..)

Sorry no prices yet. My area (herts.) is probably quite expensive.

Wow, I'm suprised that for the extra 0.03 (0.18 -> 0.15) I'd have to increase my wall 50mm given the calculation I posted earlier with 150 rockwool (reproduced below, more details in my original post [link] )

0.15ish. But honestly, currently I don't quite know yet. The main problem I'm facing is that "today" I have to decide wall width, at least for detail design and tendering purposes. Later-ish-on I would presumably still have a chance to fully calculate through the actual (over?)heating situation and perhaps adjust things incl wall width.

Ah interesting. And you would do the blown bead one then.

"price 32"? But yeah I'd love to figure out the price per m2 of my buildup I listed above versus the price per m2 of "20 render 100 block, 150 rockwool, 100 block 20 plasterboard"

@PeterW So.. summarizing one more time: 15mm plasterboard and skim, 100mm block with sand cement slurry (for airtight) 120mm PIR (maybe 150 if I'm feeling frisky) 50mm Cavity - filled with ecobead platinum or whatnot and some spacer system 100mm block 15mm render

"50mm cavity" - meaning "empty air"? or 120 PIR and 50 EPS perhaps?

@PeterW Dumb question but wouldn't this build up need some way to make it airtight? Some membrane somewhere perhaps?

My current design is 150mm but either way.. I wonder how much those beads are, compared to equivalent PIR or RockwoolHP...

Ha apologies, somehow you both look the same to me, apparently! Yes, that's the buildup that I listed, right? "HP Rockwool partial fill" "with" - you mean replacing 50mm of the rockwool with PIR? - so 100-ish Rockwool, 50-PIR assuming we're using my 400mm one Might not be a crazy idea, but then heh I'm coming back to the 'how to find a skilled tradesman' - perhaps by smell!

Getting back onto this discussion! (hi) @epsilonGreedy - being an amateur I don't read your list super-well - in particular "PIR in-between studs" - does that mean I have to count the studs as well? What's your final wall buildup thickness and U, decrment etc values achieved? I take it you are standard masonry here, and I am counting: inside 20 - Render 100 - Block 50 - Cavity 11 - OSB 100 - PIR 20 - Plaster outside -> 300mm? We've decided to go for masonry, and for now our bog standard (and therefore presumably fairly cheap?) 400mm looks like this, but happy to be informed of better buildups Composite material properties: 0.18 is higher than most people have here, but not terrible, I'd say?

Actually they need about 100 people to find that one cabinet in the howdens warehouses that is 100% perfect. I kid, I kid, no idea if howdens are any good or even deserve the negativity. My current rental has a howdens that is cheapish but not horrid. All depends on how much they paid I guess.

Fair enough. I'm not too sure which can of worms as long as it's your personal opinion (unless you're worried supplier X knows you and will make your life difficult if you don't put them number 1) Frankly, Leicht seems still a bit above what I had in mind - don't forget I'm coming from Magnet so presumably there's a long way up. I'd prefer something "halfway" ? But the hard part is of course figuring out which dealer is which until you get into the door... Will builders themselves still have builder discounts or is it as you said, "solid" retailers will effectively give the same honest price to everybody, no matter if they have strong hands or not?

Hey @ryder72 you mentioned "some german brands are peddled as high class even though they are entry" (but but but GERMAN!). Could I perhaps tempt you to rank a few german kitchen mfgs in those 3 groups - entry, midlevel, high? Effectively ha, since I'm cheap, I'm looking for "lower middle class" Leicht seems to be your recommendation, but would love an alternative or 2? Poggenpohl and siematic are probably high (or are these the 'oversold' ones even though they of course also are fine)? Which brand should I look into that is semi-affordable and won't disappoint me And after picking a brand or 2 to investigate, how can I find a reasonable price in the UK for them? Should I let my builder buy them, or are @Russell griffiths 80% discounts really only a thing for UK-based near-scam kitcheners?

I guess one challenge I have is I'm trying to figure out the final estimated cost of my house before committing to 'anything' (of course some fees and even deposits are OK).. but indeed they are asking 35, and with 'devices' (hob/oven etc ) I'll easily hit 45K then.. Instead if I can "assume" 15 (+10 devices) = 25 it's quite a different discussion... What's the best approach to get a leicht or nolte kitchen for 'as cheap as is reasonable'? Try to find a local(ish?) kitchen designer who has a deal with them? My builder will likely be happy to fit the stuff so presumably not even needed to ever come over in person, I can have kitchen dealer in Glasgow for all I care?

Magnet actually - who seem to be reviewed somewhat better

Just did a kitchen design with one of the main UK brands (hey, had to start somewhere) and the designer did an OK job, but immediately after the price was in (35K!) they said it was sale season and it's 50% off, if we decide within 3 days. Feels like UK kitchen designers are really doing this whole "wow you got so lucky you walked in today, buy now or you lose out" sales technique. I should look into Leicht and Nolte? Has Brexit hurt the prices for 'german stuff'?

Dredging this topic up one-more-time.. but: Any update on the world here? Octopus Energy rolling out 3phase better now? I'd love to see some list of devices that benefit from 3phase (as a rule of thumb at least) ASHP? MVHR? Lathe? Death Ray? PhotoPanels? Electric Car Charger?