zoothorn

Im sorry I don't understand what an air-air is. (Air fryer? I'm certainly just about ready to remove my own plums, & put them in one on high for 5 mins). If an air-air an alternate system, the idea is n/ a: I've been offered the monoblock by Vaillant. I cannot shop around other mfrs & other systems, even other systems of theirs. It's been chosen for me afaik.

@sharpener Thanks for your posts. I've tried to say what I have, & what's to be the replacement. Now: Arotherm "split" 10kw? I think they were saying before install I need a 10.. but no mention anywhere on any hardware. Hopefully: Arotherm(?) "monoblock" 10kw? I can only assume so, if, it's to be a replacement system: would you surmise so? The only two things I know as fact, are between "...." marks. Zoot

Haha. Well my point you quoted here, was that as I think you'd understand, I don't trust a word Vaillant say about their stuff. Even the installer -who did mine now, not affiliated with them & who is totally not at fault for the noise- said "Oh that box? [hydraulic unit] Won't make any noise that, it's got sound insulation look [pathetic black 'styrene bits around sides]" = I can't trust anyone at all spieling about this Vaillant hardware can I then. (Your similar unit from a different mfr.. doesn't make overnight noise). Edit: Joe90 I have -pleaded- with then to fit it without a buffer. Begged them. They refuse. If they'd said yes... I wouldn't have any need for a single word of this thread: it wouldn't exist. It is so far from simples as its possible to be!! Zh

Hi Joe90. That's useful, but raises concerns for me straight off the bat that if placed 1.5m away from my spare bedroom bed.. there could be some irritating water noise from it. NOTHING likely to compare to the mechanical pump that's plagued me overnight, but, could still possibly be intrusive to the function of this bedroom (sleep). Vaillant would't admit this. They'd just fkn lie saying 'it doesn't make noise'. They didn't even tell me anything about a large box, with paltry sound insulation pathetically tagged onto it's sides (a design atrocity) they decided to site in this very spot. So they wouldn't be truthful about any noise this buffer may emit. Never in a month of sundays would they. Anyway. The main point I'd put in reply to your post here is this, which Ive asked time after time but no response; WHY DOESNT MY ASHP NOW, HAVE THIS BUFFER..... WHY IF THIS MONOBLOCK PROPOSITION IS A 'REPLACEMENT' (NOT AN 'ALTERNATIVE' SYSTEM), DOES IT HAVE ONE ??? (I guess this is a rhetorical question, rather than one any of you guys could answer, is my point right here). Thanks, zoot

Hi BeelB.. spot on, all of that- & thanks for engaging in my dilemma fully to have written this post. All correct apart from: if I could have turned off the ashp, & just kept the boiler on, I would have done so. The whole system only has 1 big red 'scary' plastic round switch though. Not a separate one for just the CH. With respect though, this is only an option I could have done (if indeed I did find such a separate switch) with the ashp which is to be removed. So whether or not I did isolate the CH/ turn off/ slept ok... it's not applicable, now. I'm simply at the stage of the new system fitting. Which won't have the bedroom interruptions because the pump is in the outside fan unit in a monoblock system. So this noise aspect is water under the bridge THANK GOD (it having been my no.1 problem). I'm still stuck at this buffer hurdle. Simply & only this. Where/ why/ what is it/ how can any small house be expected to accomodate such a huge thing/ why wasn't I told of it when I was planning the position for the new ashp hardware/ what can yiu think of to help me navigate the conversation with head office, to either minimise it's size.. do without it entirely.. or anything/ anything/ anything on god's earth to help me. Thanks, Zoothorn

Urgh. No, I thought it wasn't likely a buffer. But its a white flaming bloody tank that holds presumably, water, which is presumably, what this white f*****g buffer tank also holds too.

Hi Temp. Thank goodness- this is an idea that I had thought of, but Im so caffufled with this thread I had forgotten it (I almost can't cope anymore on here, it's not doing my health good as Im getting even more stressed, seemingly getting nowhere). Yes. This idea came to me in a eureka moment on a walk. Totally forgot. This idea though, involves a week's work for me in horrible cramped mice ridden loft. SO.. it's a last resort idea. I need desperately to ask though: if there are any other ideas, anyone can think of, before I offer to do this building work for Vaillant to accomodate this f******g huge thing Ive no f******g idea what it even is. Thanks, that is a helpful suggestion. I need to destress & come back tmrw. Zoot

How can I forget about this buffer, when it's the sole/ the only thing I'm asking about on the thread? I'm completely baffled by this question.

@TonyT I gave some form of vessel above my cylinder here. It's about 1.5 basketballs in size. White, a tank. Is this a 'buffer'??

Tony, it's not to do with my using the ashp in any way. This is irrelevant (on this aspect anyway, as I've said- I won't use the C.heating). I'm simply at the stumbling block of siting this wretched huge piece of equipment, in my small home. And why I should even need it, if my current ashp it's meant to replace doesn't have one. And how I can navigate this stumbling block in my discussion with Vaillant; whether I can either do without it, or 'barter' some smaller type. And lastly (& to a far lesser degree, reluctantly, & only if this helps me navigate any part of the discussion with them about this stumbling block).. what on earth the bloody thing is. Thanks, Zoot

And another question please chaps: I see some form of weird expansion white vessel/ tank, sitting atop the cylinder currently. Is this a buffer??

Hi TT. The using of it.. or not, is far from what I need to concentrate on, for now. I'm simply at this stage, how I get past this buffer hurdle. --- Ok, I need to rewind a step. Can anyone tell me why my current 'split' ashp doesn't have a buffer, but the replacement 'monoblock' ashp (which is it safe to assume is the same kW figure?)........... does? Thanks Zoot

Hi Marvin, really appreciated. I've started/ tried, but 1/10th in.. it's way over my head. I can't possibly cope with the complexity to glean anything of use from it. Seems I'm not really getting anywhere here.

Hi Marvin, thanks but unfortunately I'm unable to comprehend this degree of engineering, to make use of your info, to understand their thinking. As a customer I'm adamant I shouldn't be expected to have A-level (if not degree-standard) over-complicated central-heating system engineering comprehension. I should only be expected to dial in my times, turn on a hot tap. And monitor it for any "Maintenance" symbol, or leak. Btw what report are you referring to-? (Housing stock etc?)

@S2D2 Many thanks indeed for your numbers there. I understand the jump thing. I can use your post here as 'ammunition' in my (gently gently) inquiry to Head Office about the overall size of system proposed. If ONLY I could get them to fit a 7kw one instead.. my troubles are finally at an end. Ludicrous that I'll never use the ASHP for heating, gratingly ironic, but there we go/ can't tell them this.

Hi JM, you might find this odd, but I have no interest in actually using the ASHP for C.heating. It's so ineffective, that I had to ask them how to increace the flow temp/ & some other temp, to even then just get 1 mildy warm room as a result: a room just built & bang up to date insulation (all signed of by BCO) = far too expensive to be useable here. But I can't tell them this. Or they might say "well your house ain't suitable [it isn't] so our offer is rescinded". I only agreed to the system, for a new boiler. No other reason whatsoever; I knew 100% contrary to what the Govt Grant chap told me, that this cottage -wouldn't ever- be warm with this system. No fkn way. "Oh you'll be cosy.." he said etc (he merely had a number/ criteria to fill to get his job done & I was simply a convenient house to call at). My boiler was mouse-ridden & decrepit you see, the whole cottage terribly in need of renovating etc. So how could I dismiss a chance of a free new boiler? If it had an ashp box & new rads too.. these would/ could only ever be superflous & unused. So I don't use the ashp for heating! If it's so very expensive for such little gain, no sense at all. I use a tiny fan heater, & an oil filled rad in my bedroom. Freezing cottage, used to it, can't do anything about it. Even a bigass stove struggles to heat the main room, so i decamp to my garden cabin when very cold with it's diddy stove: I'm only ever warm in here! Potty. Zh

I think actually this thread is exacerbating my stress! No kidding. And I knew it would too. But I have to glean knowledge/ ideas/ opinions, I have no choice but to. Thanks, Zh

@Dan F I -think- my system is a 10kw one. A split type, to be removed. Useful numbers there, thanks. I can propose a 25l tank to them with your 7kw figure. At least a starting point. -- On a separate note, the aspect I find infuriating about these damn systems, quite apart from what Ive outlined in my awful experience.. is the fact that these extra hardware boxes & tanks, compared to a typical gas CH system they often replace.. are never ONCE mentioned. Only the addition of an outside fan unit. So the customer is blindsided when the installer turns up with large boxes & tanks he insists are to be fitted within the house. It's atrocious, hoodwinking, they're existance IMHO --deliberately not mentioned-- by the mfr. Let alone onward, that these boxes will create intrusive noise excacerbated if sited in cupboard next to beds, in bedrooms. It's a bloody disgrace. I have R4 on most if the time. I often hear phone-ins moaning about ASHP's, but only about the running costs. Never once, anyone mentioning the ruinous forced-accommodation of large indoor hardware needed with these damn systems. Never once any mention of intrusive noise from interior hardware operating infuriating frost modes 11pm - 7.30 am keeping you awake. It's perplexing that I seem to be the only one, in europe, with this problem. It just adds to my frustration. If I could, I'd rip this damn design disaster out & burn it. I hate it vehemently. Zoot.

Hi Dan F. Now, this has been something I have been considering. And in fact a main reason for the thread. IE the possibility of using a --smaller-- buffer, which I could squeeze in with only minimal impact on my cottage. So. Chaps what about this idea, thus: now in my main big stone 1820 cold-ass shell sittingroom (other rooms attach to), the two sizeable ashp rads... are as good as useless. Not it's fault, simply my cottage's fault. Could I not ask them, that if I turn off these two rads (i do anyway- they're a waste of money & energy, & I have a woodstove if I do want to heat this cold sittingroom) permanently, could a -one smaller- monoblock go in, instead? Assuming that is, a buffer isn't needed OR it has a smaller one like so. Is that a reasonable proposition to put to them??

Hi dpm, I can't possibly reply to this as I have no comprehension of it's meaning. A customer, consider old mrs. Miggins at no.73 for example, shouldn't be expected to have to consider engineering minutiae. Surely.

Hi DougM, thanks fir your reply. Afaict, the buffer thing is needed on this replacement ('monoblock') ashp.. but is absent, so I assume then not needed on my existing (' split') ashp. In my estimation then, this proposed ashp is therefore not a replacement, but an alternative. But I can't kick up a fuss.. if the offer is foc, & I've got them to u-turn & (reluctantly) admit he offer is still valid. This is the pickle.

I've gone round everywhere, intricately measuring. It's just so big the only 2 or so possible places would be ruinous to my small cottage. Loft- This was FIRST place I asked the installer on the spot when he threw this infuriating curveball at me, last August. He went back to ask. The idea refused in an email later, because it needs to be in an insulated place was their reason. Why the installer is so insistant, is beyond me. He even said at this August 22 visit "you could do without, but it's a compromise/ may not work as well/ possible guarantee compromised" (8 yrs.. this decent guarantee, for me alone here with a low income, I cannot compromise).

Hiya Joe90, hope things settled down a bit for you. Thx for your thoughts. I'll certainly ask the woman, but I am kinda on thin ice I feel re. their offer reinstated: I can't be super picky, or they drawbridge may come down & offer declined (again). Eggshells, but will try.

Hi ProDave ( thanks so much for reading my essay too). Hope all's good with you. Bang on. And I've pleaded with them to not have it, but they are insistant. Why is beyond me. I've even said I'll take responsibility to not have one; this was even given to me as an 'option with possible consequences' by their Renewables dept, a year ago when their installer was ready to come to site-visit. But now.. this installer is calling the tune (so far as I can gather). And he is the one insistant on his wretched buffer addition. And he tells the head office, who go with his "expert pov". Thanks, Zoot

I know this. Because infuriatingly, the one I still have in now... has no such additional buffer thing whatsoever. The HWT is in this spare bedroom corner. A typical siting in houses Ive seen.