zoothorn

I just spoke to my nice BCO. Thank goodness he's approachable & friendly (if I had the other chap..). Ok now he doesn't have my plans (no need to), so cannot concur with me about reason for 350mm extra D. Ok understood. What he did say was insulation is yet to be added, & that either chipboard or scree top. So, 100mm of insulation + 25mm of top. It matters not a fart for this conversation what materials used. It only matters that ontop of my 2x 9" blocks.. will be ONLY an inch or two max. So my 350mm extra is a certainty as to its an error. So I need to approach my builder1. Very tricky. He reassured my slightly with regard to my main concern the area of exposed ground below adjacent orig wall footings.. but only slightly. He said ideally it does need covering (I fkn did this last night as best i could/ pretty much all still exposed), but can be 'blocked' up later to sure it up. Even the word 'underpinned' he used which sends shivers down me re. cost. Still it remains that a whole 1ft x 6 yds area of ground bang next to shallow 1830 founds has been unneccessarily excavated due to builder2 error. Fact. I'm furious & this aint the frame of mind to tackle my builder, especially if even I put my concern that a mistake's been made timidly, he'll shut up shop & leave me in the lurch for weeks with this exposed area so vulnerable. So I have a battle. And this is appalling situation to be in at such an early stage.

I'm not sure about mixing up terms. I haven't mention the word application in the thread. My applications were many steps past. We have an agreed set of plans, so, I do know what is correct. I mean you are now suggesting I haven't given any plans. IO have. I posted them up here twice. The ground level of the lower room.. is so clear I cannot poosiibly understand any argument to say its not. I just can't. I t doesn't make any logical sense, & keeping reading it is bewildering. Room 1 height = 2000mm. Its on there in bold, a line up/down designating it. This -IS- clear. Its not ambiguos in any way at all. Room 2 height = 2300mm. Its on there in bold, a line up/down designating it. This -IS- clear. Its not ambiguos in any way at all. Dividing floor between = 200mm. Bold, clear, unambiguous. I mean I even went for whole easy figures, 2000, 4500, (4000 L to build) to make it bullet/ idiot- proof as to clarity & simplicity. But you say the very opposite that's is a mess, a fag packet sketch, nothing's clear so my mistake only?! its utterly totally nonsensical.

Cheers ABosch.. wise words. I have tho been put off making friends here due to the nasty 'welcome' I've encountered from entrenched-minded locals. But saying that my buddie couple I mentioned are a help, so I'm not entirely alone, tho he was the one who thought -& maybe he's right who klnows what's going on this surface, if anything- that the insulation/ scree/ is all to be added TO the top of the 2x9" block level & all will be tickety boo bar a few inches: the immediate response on here to this suggestion was (& I share it fwiw) was '"oh he' hasn't a clue whoever he is".. so I don't know. Immediate support group.. I'm sorry to say, but you guys are it! far far better than not it goes without saying. Thanks alot-zoot.

Thank you Jamie, but Full Plans are A) not what I did/ was expected to do/ or asked by builder1 to do, B) I had a set given to me by builder1 to go by anyway I still have them & I went by them too, to draw up my condensed/ simplified 'Build Notice' he asked for, C) its too late now. On these Full Plans, the existing floor levels within the main house are designated -only- by broken lines, without even labels saying "existing floor level" so the assumption was to me (& never questioned by builder1 or said 'what's that line?' in fact to the contrary I asked him if he understood the broken lines to be clear indication of existing floor levels? "yes") that broken lines indicate existing floor levels. I remain of the opinion, in this build & from the very plans HE gave me to then work from.. this to be simply the case.

Anyway looking forward, the only avenue I can explore is my BCO (who is approachable, level-headed & rather bullied about a bit by no2 on a job to job basis it seems to me). He actually innitially advised me to go the 2-story design, when I was in a pickle 2 years ago, & came round to help me out on a courtesy call. He's the only avenue I can take re. direct 1-to-1 advice. The other avenue I have to explore is living/ going with what I have -IF- its assumed that 1) my FFL is indeed as it is, & 2) builder1 will not shift one iota or accept the mistake that's been made by builder2 (as he should), because the welsh obdurate shut-up-shop will land bigtime, & the most pressing concern is the ersion of my main house under-foundations. THIS is extremely concerning. If I have to go with it as it is, I need to reconfigure many details/ dimensions/ heights/ levels.. before.. builder 1 gets his TFrame Co to build 2 rooms one at 2000m , other at 2300. Because if tgis happens, the whole extention will be 350mm below the original house eaves its meant to tuck up into. This would be an utter disaster for me. This is priority.

No, "as much as I trust my builder" implies that my full trust in him is beginning to be of question ("as much as I".. is deliberately written & with purpose to NOT be.. "I fully trust") Further on, the next sentence, shows that I too am beginning to re-consider my trust in no2. Its a change in my thinking, & a shift/ a fairly fast re-appraisal yes.. but its not me saying I trust him & in the next sentence I do not. No. It might be the next few days after innitially saying I trust him, but again this is --not-- a contradiction. A contradiction is within an immediate timeframe, within a sentence or one following another as you suggest. It is neither an elaboration too. This is not what I have said Jamie.

Can someone tell me what usually happens on a typical groundwork ground floor for an extention. Just a standard build. I get the 2x 9" block perimeter ontop of the moat of founds. This I understand. Its between this work & the FFL.. can someone please tell me the typical layers to expect. One of the layers is 100mm polystyrene. This I understand (but where its to be found I do not).

OkHi Jamie, please elaborate/ tell me of: the 1st contradiction, & the 1st anomally.

@andyscotland yes all points taken on board. I am resolute (not arrogantly so) that my 2300 +200 +2000 is clear as can possibly be. 4.5m to ground floor. I didn't see the insulation, no, but I have to work from inside house/ do not have clear sight of build (keep popping out to see) but a whole chunk of the floor appeared ~within an hour or so, like the black sheet covering what I'd now want to know underneath. I assumed from my book that concrete went on next > insulation > top screed last. So that's what I was waiting to see.. waiting for the H to increace after concrete poured. But it stayed same. Then "see you/ all done/ maybe doing cladding not sure". So was builder1 coming on to do finishing toches to groundwork? is groundwork done? the more time elases.. the more its dawning on me that perhaps its done. Meaning I'm an -additional- 100mm deep to the 350 definitely established by the builder2 error, because the concrete level is 100mm shy of the perimeter block top.

No, another good Q (really apprteciated chaps- thanks for sticking by) its only a panic assumption at 5.40AM & sweat on I admit. I do think this now tho as 1) builder2 has jumped off, signifying the groundwork done/ so I assume the floor.. & 2) the machine leveler thing [white bar across/ jiggy/ 2-stroke engine between] I now think was a floor finisher. Tho the damn floor isn't very level, with an offset of 3/4" across where rain water has pooled. True, yes in theory I agree the FFL is not a certainty its done/ as is.. but what about this machine thing & fact builder2 has finished his chunk of work on this build? IE a handshake (thief) & "be round sat to pick up digger' all ok?" & talk of maybe doing the blockwork cladding/ may not-? does that not tell you it -is- the FFL?

To answer your Q ABosch, I've talked to an architect (who 1st suggested a 350mm step down, to aid my limited overall H) drew it up as the innitial 'overall' Planning application drawings, from which I pretty much put the same information, just clearer/ bigger, when it came to the build plan. And also a couple/ friends I've made here who've done alot themselves, had an outbuilding local build, who provide enthusiasm.. if not technical know how. Good Q re. my seeming reliance on BH posts: no, this is due only to my being single/ no family to help, or anyone I know in the whole country well: I am very much alone (& that's good! tho it has its limiting factors of course). So yes hence I come here more often than many on here would- I like it here & the help is overwhelmingly terrific (the pack thing is the fly in the soup & to be put up with, just my opinion as said). I've been discussing this build & even the design of it to a degree, with builder1 for over 1.5 years off & on. Extensively so within last 6 months, as he's in village often, so popped in for a chat fairly often.

Again, the tone is "its you.. they're fine". I feel another innevitable forum-gathering together (Ive given my opinion as to whty I believe this happens.. it won't stop it happening) post after post. It feels like an excuse for this mistake. My builder no2 even ADMITTED he was too deep!! lying thru his teeth (I could tell, with my fkn tape measure he lifted on his hip [I left it out overnight, my work tape with important marks along it, & next morning awol/ he assumed a trade had left it & pocketed it] which doesn't exactly give me confidence alone in either what he says or the work done) "I have gone 80mm too deep" all sheepishly. Bllx: it was dawning on him, I could tell by his expression, that he'd just looked at plan again, considered why I kept asking "is that the floor level??" increasingly worryingly.. & realised the major error. Plain as day to see. So to cover himself, as an admission-of-sorts (like the kid who stole 'maybe yes one sweetie' not the whole pack) he admits 80mm. Childishness is SO obvious to perceive (we're wired to notice it) even if its a grown up being the child. A bit of psychology at 7.28am to add, whooda thunk it. So, is this '80mm' my mistake too? please..

@andyscotland please just forget the door at the moment, its an absolute triviality in the mix right now. It'll totally change, as will the interior room heights (both) due to this dreadful mistake from this builder2. Yes its his mistake, no I do not accept it is mine not whatsoever: it is NOT a fag packet sketch. I take exception this this after alot of very hard work. if anything was unclear, my builder would have said (at the time of going tru it, or just prior to commencing work.. as he'd have to have discussed with no2 even as I think a mere 2 min chat at 7am). Its more a problem that I'm simply english, & the lower caste therefore 'we do it as fast as possible, with minimum concentration, & onto next job' than anything I've done as to reasoning for why this dimwitted mistake has occured. NOW I feel like firing the b'stards. But now, you're all "its you its you.. they're all fine what can they do" nicely nicely talking up them: only yesterday you were all FIRE THEM! The height of room 1 is clear. The height of dividing floor is clear. The height of upper room is clear. The sum of these is 4500. I have 4950. It can be argued (extremely thinly, desperately thinly, & -only- from the pov of gunning for the builder & not for me.. which is exactly what I now feel here.. & tallies with the feeling of bullying I get from n'bors somewhat) that my 350 is not clear as to where it is. Please look at the lower point, & cast an eye a few cm's left.. its abundantly clear it marries with the floor level. I do not accept you could argue its not, unless, you're resolutely on the builder's side & not mine. At the moment I've just had another panic on & total sleeplessness due to it: its just occured to me, that the level as it is now/ the shiny concrete in last photo, is not going to be added to, but the flaming final floor level! (insulation having been put in is now my hunch). Which adds insult to injury as its 100mm shy of the block lip. So, in all I'm 450mm too deep.. not 350mm.

Unless some insulation -has- gone in under the black plastic. But I've been keeping tabs on every tiny stage of it. I did miss the dumper FO'ing into the forest with the earth I assumed was to be piled & backfilled.. so god knows. Where is it meant to go? I tyhought its usually above this black dpc, & above the concrete section that's curing right now, with more concrete ontop of it. JesusH christ I'm so confused.

So I can only deduce from this, that my 2x 9" block height.. 100% cannot therefore be.. my floor height. In order to be up to BRegs, I 100% definitely need some additional height (I assume in the form of a perimeter 'wall' of some material maybe 1x brick). Is this true?

So hang on, if I have a perimeter of block filled within it 100mm shy of the lip with (afaict) a concrete pour.. & I need minimum 85mm of insulation plus 100mm of screed, then this cannot happen, in my case -without- adding another course of something on the block.. or it'll just either pour over the edge/ not be contained by a perimeter.. or what?? Why have I got a 100mm drop to fill if I need 85mm min insulation.. can the scree be minimum 15mm then??

Hi Roundtit, no I wasn't required to do one (in fact it took me 12 hours flat out to do this plan, plus two overhead room views.. so another side plan was too much for me to attempt, & my builder was happy with these alone). I admit though (ggod Q) that a side view would have been hugely & pertinently useful, with regard to the drop down, in retrospect now. I just couldn't have envisaged such a child's page1 error as has occured. Its pure bad luck, one huge sod's law considering how often I spoke about how critical this drop was to the whole build (ALL abc xyz follows this one floor position). can you see my plan though, page 8 I think. Do you think my 350mm is clear? do you agree as to my thinking on how we've gone an extra 350mm down? no-one has said they agree with me, but Ive never seen anything as clear as to a cause of an error.. in my entire life.

I don't think the slab is complete yet, is it? no insulation as of yet no. I have a lip of 100mm to fill yet to get to the top of the 2x block.. but I've no idea what happens next (insulation/ scree I believe.. but 50mm/50mm or 75mm/25mm? Ive no idea how thick standard floor scree is so cannot answer).. whether another brick or block is to go on the petimeter, therefore if my floor height -is- this.. or not who knows. Builder2 told me it was, which means 100mm to fill. I can only assume 50mm insulation, 50mm scree if 25mm is too little for scree. In which case its -not- what I suggested we go for at last speaking on this matter: here I said please go for 100mm polystyrene/ the standard please/ final. Before I'd asked for 50mm, if allowed by BCO, as I was tight for height @ 2000mm you see (IE scavenging 2" extra onto my 2000mm room height).. now that plan is n/a as I'm so damn deep, but seems maybe we're going this 50mm PIR route: if so then a definite miscommunication, & of concern. But nothing compared to the structural surity of my main flippin house end wall. I believe offsite. Builder2 told me Timber Frame Co be on site today, so all prepared for them.. but no-one appeared.

They don't have the power to tell builder1 to do the T.Frame fast please bc zoot's old founds & below it are exposed to elements & eroding.. they can't give him the hurry up. That'll only make him do the opposite.. they're colleagues, but not the perfect bedfellows like builder 1&2 are.

Ok. No steps between old & new (well not the lower room) access in only via an outside door. This door was planned to be a mere 100mm below ground height, to minimise need for a step here, &, minimise any work to taper in any of the ground, & once inside.. the BCO told me THEN a step (more a larger shelf actually) is needed. Thanks all- really do appreciate the help.

Declan I know you are trying to help, but can you see my plan? I put it up again a few posts back. Is my 350mm step not clear? Would you not think its simply a case of an idiot doing it too quickly (& adding 350 onto 2000).. or just rather consider it is entirely my fault? My 350mm step down is perfectly clear. My plan is absolutely clear. The reason why I'm 700mm down, instead of 350mm (IE precisely an additional 350mm) is perfectly, absolutely & abundantly clear. Its been added to the 2000mm. Only someone whose either an idiot, or, who has loose reasonably intelligent but looked at it only briefly & with arrogance at its simplicity & with too much haste.. has simply cracked on to quickly. Declan this is solely the likely cause. Nothing apart from this.

Thank you redoctober.. that's the perfectly reasonable q Ive been longing for here. Thank goodness. Why.. because redO, I have 600m height below the founds of my adjacent old C1830 simple stone cottage main room.. now fully exposed & facing due west where the rain drives up from, 350mm too much D (so should be only 250mm exposed) crumbling away in front of my eyes so that with every rain shower my stress levels go up to max. I'm off to buy a huge tarp tmrw & somehow prevent rain getting at it.. near impossible with huge wall face above running down from. I just know they'll now be 2 weeks wait until I see builder again.. as is typical of him. No probs if only 250mm exposed as should be.. but terribly stressful with 600m exposed. I'm checking for cracks in the main wall every hour. Awful. If I ask him I will be met with white lies, backing up builder2 etc, or backtracking saying my plan wasn't clear &/ or no we never discussed it.. & I'll fkn flip I swear it. And It'll be 4 weeks before I see him, 4 weeks of me not sleeping &.. no. So I can't even speak to him. Catch22. You see? its abhorrant the power builders have, how much they know they control every client's mental health in the plams of their fkn hands, its absoultely disgraceful there's no body to be on the client's side or regulation of their work.

My builder told me -specifically- that the details were not needed. Why? because u-values he knows. I don't. What on earth's the point of me researching for a day to write on it a u-value, when he knows off the bat what he'll use for its insulation anyway (95% of the time as you, he & I know it'll be 100mm polystyrene). It doesn't matter anyway what mm this insulation is to me/ not a flying jot. Why not? Because today's regs are so stringent that their minimum.. will be a godsend compared to the cold floor blight Ive known for 3 years. So I couldn't care less. He told me -only- to put on: door placements/ window placements/ wall positions/ corner points/ roof position/ floor positions. There isn't -anything- else needed, for him, on this build.. to proceed. Nothing. We discussed this for 6-12 months. U-values NO!! NOT necessary. Do you understand the process by which I've taken? on the plan there there there is my 350mm step down! I mean its as if somehow its magically dissapearing of my plan, when you look at it or something.

Ist sentence: how though? the clear indication, & Ive asked many times of builder2 ("is that the floor height??".. "yes" & many times.. as I was confused & waiting for more UP to happen/ getting concerned we were way too low etc) is these 2x 9" blocks height, forming a wall.. would be filled in with (whatever- I dont care a damn at this stage, pigs testicles I care not just as long as its up to building regs xyz/ which it 99.9999% will be). Sentence 2: but I know this. Ive known this for 25 years. It is not up to me to put the insulation in. I am not a builder. The builder will put the insulation in. It will be at the least, the minimum ammount. Why? how do I know this? "b b but its not on ylour plan tho". Because my builder will do it uo to byuilding regulations, as he's done for decade. after decade. after decade. There is not 0.000000001% chance he will not put in insulation up to the minimum required. B b but its not on your plan" forget the fkn plan already! Its not -meant- to on there anyway! because he didn't ask me that its neccassary to put it on; this doesn't flaming well mean he's going to leave it out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im going insane with this.

I was specifically told this wasn't needed in terms of info on the plan I was told to do. Onoff this is a Build Notice. If my builder wanted me to state what insulation, he'd have either: asked me to do so on the plan (not just "door placements/ window.. corners.. just this.. is all I want").. or when he had my plan finally done & shown him, then he might have said "but where is the insulation?". He didn't. That is NOT to say he will not put any in!! it means he'll put in the standard X that is required, to meet Building Regs. Can you not understand this? I mean I haven't put on it 'concrete 9" blocks to be used, thermalites too'.. but that doesn't mean no concrete blocks & thermalites are there in front of my eyes does it-?! did I put on "12 inches of founds in 600mm wide dug trench"? no. But that's what was done. So How has this been done.. if I didn't specify it on the plan?? (rhetorical q..).