LA3222

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You'd think so wouldn't you, they weren't on mine though even though the frontage of the house is a 15m run of blockwork!

Yarp. I have SIP inner skin, blockwork outer - I got Ancon debonding ties (every course with blockwork) and the foam expansion joint filler. Once brickies done I went over the gap with White silicon to fill it it (not full depth, just over the top of the foam). Rendered came and then put a bead over it etc. Try to line them up with gutter downpipes to hide them.

@nod beat me to it. There's not much point in having expansion joints if there isn't one in the blockwork. What should happen is expansion joints in the blockwork, an expansion bead goes over that and render goes up to the expansion bead. Manufacturers tend to be no help as they probably dont want to be at risk of liability. I asked Johnstones the same questions for my render, they said ask the architect, the architect said ask Building Control who said to ask the structural engineer designing the walls of the house - really! In the end I told the brickies to put expansion joints in and where to do it (following NHBC guidance) and then the renderers put the expansion beads over them and the rest is history.

I'd say this is pointless as most people tend to be entrenched in their views. Politics is just one of those areas that is highly polarising and the last ten years have been particularly so - I can't recall a time when tensions have been so high among the population. Brexit and IndyRef2 are constantly just simmering away, then throw in Black Lives matters, climate change protestors and Covid, financial crashes, it's mad when you think about it - there are so many issues with the country at the minute. The easier thing to do would be not to have threads like this, its far too easy to get sucked into arguing and let's face it, debating politics over an internet forum is a futile endeavour - I'm as guilty as the next man for getting sucked in when what I should really be doing is designing my plumbing layout!!!

I think we're playing with words here Jack. The post did indeed refer to a country, but if we follow this to the root, the country is the people. The people elect the Legislature whom enact the will of the people and are therefore a direct representation of the public (the percentage that voted for them). So if we follow through what you state: England --> Legislature (Political body if you prefer) --> Voting Public To say that the post was referring to a Political body and not English people is a fallacy and as far as not using derogatory language, I'm pretty sure the meaning (maybe not the intent) was both critical and disrespectful - hence derogatory. I'm not bothered by it by any means, I was merely making a point that you can't have your cake and eat it.

Bit of a broad sweeping assumption/slur there about English people (all the more surprising considering you objected to derogatory terms being used in an earlier post). It appears to me that remain leaning people / organisations etc etc have to find some reason to 'justify' or 'explain' why we voted to leave. It is usually to do with racism, xenophobia, lack of education, old people stealing Young people's futures away from them, anti-immigration, far right, whatever. There always has to be an underlying reason common to all leave voting individuals. I have to say, being unhappy about not being Alpha, so taking our ball home is a new one on me.

You should have a look at the auctions that @PeterW keeps linking to. There are loads of cheap bathroom stuff on there quite frequently. The only reason I havent picked anything up yet myself is that I'm a fair way from that stage. When I'm ready will be scouring auctions for liquidation auctions.

Armaflex is the badger aint it?

Difficult to say really as there is no big 'gotcha', it is more a collection of little things which on balance leave me thinking, regretfully that we are better off out on the whole. Don't get me wrong, I'm pro European, I just don't like what the Union has become. Free movement, the ability to go live and work in other countries are great and its a shame to lose them. I think that the EU is too different to integrate in the way they are trying and its causing a lot of issues. There is a big wealth/debt imbalance, I dont like how Governing the EU works, it seems like a cess pit of self interested motivations. The EU came up with a constitution in 2005, put it to a referendum in France and The Netherlands where it was soundly rejected. What do they do, rewrite it slightly as the Treaty of Lisburn and sign it off without so much as a 'by your leave' to their voters. Such contempt is shown by those in power to the electorate its disgusting. The contempt they showed David Cameron when he went to try and 'win' concessions pre Brexit vote. They gave him nothing and he had to pretend otherwise. They were dumbfounded when the UK voted leave simply because they have no grasp whatsoever of public opinion or they choose to wilfully ignore it. I cant support remain whilst the EU is governed in such fashion. It was supposed to be a trading union, God knows what it is now. The subsidy system, all of it is a cess pit of self interests. They are battling now over the Brexit relief fund in the event of no deal. Look at the cluster f**k with the EU Covid Relief Package, Poland and Hungary looking to veto it because they don't want clauses which prejudice against their access to the fund. They are slowing becoming autocratic, suppressing their judiciary etc, what can the EU do....nothing. It is an impotent and corrupt organisation. They 'buy' Turkish agreement to stop the flow of migrants and now have to tread carefully with the Greece/Turkey oil drilling issue in case the Turks open the gates and let the migrants through. Powerless to stand up for one of their own. Greece and Italy were hammered with the migrant crisis, the EU declared that all EU countries had to accept a redistribution of migrants to help Greece and Italy out...did they....no. They left Greece and Italy to it. Its a Union of equals when it suits, when it doesn't it is every man for themselves. A great idea, poorly led and poorly executed.

Not a single person out there can say this is true - not one. I have yet to see an economical impact statement presented in the last 5yrs turn out to be true/accurate. Everything that George Osbourne / Mark Carney stated as fact turned out to be yet more nonsense spouted by the remain side. We may well end up with a smaller economy, conversely we may end up booming. It is all conjecture so please don't present it as a given because it simply is not. They all lied - see financial impact statements presented by the former Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Governor of The Bank of England. They all have 'opinions' and as expected their opinions are flavoured by their leanings. Only history will be able to judge if it was the right call or not - remainer predictions are just that, predictions. One of the things that really annoyed throughout was the willingness of the CoE and the Governor of the BoE to talk down the economy at every given opportunity. I would say the 'negativity' of the remain side, talking down the economy and the country at every turn played just as big a part in the result as red buses driving around with Brexit promises splashed across them.

So you have a vote, turnout means that no-one gets above 50% and you propose re-running it.....really? The next vote happens, no-one gets over 50%, do we go again? Re-running the vote is the worst idea i have heard. You talk about disenfranchised voters, what do you think a rerun would do? A lot of thos who 'won' first time around wouldn't bother voting again. So what impact does that have on the result if say remainers get over 50% of the vote? Its an even more skewed vote as leavers wouldn't be represented either by protest absence / spoiled ballots etc. A re-run is a ridiculous idea. As for not having a binary question, what else do you put on there? Yet another nonsensical remainer ploy. So we have 1. No 2. Yes - Soft Brexit 3. Yes - Hard Brexit. No.1 gets 45%, No.2 gets 20%, No.3 get 30% - what is the solution there? No got the most votes in singular terms, but then 2 + 3 are both leave voters with a total of 50% so does leave win? But then the vote is split with neither achieving your fabled 50% so what do we do? Re-run the vote or go with No.3 which only got 30% of all votes cast? Farcical. The Lib Dems got their Alternate Vote referendum in 2011: The final result put the Yes vote at 32.1% and the No vote at 67.9%. I sometimes wonder if the remain side focused their efforts now on embracing leave and have the country all pulling in the same direction we might actually achieve something positive. All this sniping at the Government etc serves one purpose and that is to undermine them and helps the EU politicians. A country presenting a united front, regardless of underlying feelings about what happened with the vote, can achieve more. Remainers could have had a soft Brexit, but they weren't happy with that and what did the sniping/undermining achieve? It brought Theresa May down and gave us Boris and potentially no deal (which I am happy with to be fair!). Remainers have no-one to blame but themselves.

But equally, how can you lump those votes into your remain grouping? It is true there was no majority for leave, but where is the majority for remain??

Ha, I'm not wound up. Killing a few minutes whilst I have lunch? On a serious note, the assumption that leavers are xenophobic idiots is an all too common one amongst remainers - I suppose it helps them sleep at night?‍♂️

Seeing the likes of Dominic Grieve, David Gauke, Anna Soubry lose their seats was outstanding. MPs thinking they can ask the public to answer a question, decide they don't like the answer and that they know better lose their seats was outstanding. The sheer effrontery and gall of MPs to assume they know better so 'ignore' the electorate is appalling. Equally I believe the Civil Service to be riddled with unelected remain leaning individuals who seem to think they too can hamper 'Brexit' and its ok. The people elect Government to carry out their manifesto. The Civil Service are there to enable MPs to do so. What is so difficult with all of this?‍♂️

Come on mate, why do remainers assume leavers are idiots who didn't know what they voted for? My decision to vote leave was in no way influenced by promises written on the side of red buses. I took that for the same political clap trap that remainers were spouting to support their arguments. I was under no illusions about what I was voting for and have no issues with a potential no deal. My only issue with this whole process was the sorry saga involving Theresa May and her attempt to sell Brexit down the river therefore subverting what most people voted for in the first place. The way that MPs tried to row back and water down what the public voted for democratically was an absolute disgrace. The best thing to happen in the last couple of years was the hubris of Jo Swinney thinking she had a shot of making massive gains for the Liberal Democrats and agreeing to Boris Johnstones attempt to force a General Election. This forced Labour/Corbyn to support it too and gave the electorate another chance to give the MPs another good hiding at the ballot box. When Boris came back with a massive majority, and taking Labour strongholds from 'working class' constituencies i was over the moon. I woke up early to watch the Brexit results come in and I was absolutely buzzing. I woke up early to watch the results of the last election come in and again I was absolutely buzzing. Two massive elections and a massive resounding message sent to Parliament. I am far from uneducated, it baffles me why remainers assume (or like to kid themselves) we are?‍♂️

Why are you counting non voters in with the people who voted remain??

As entertaining as it is arguing about black and white it I think it is ultimately futile. Apparently debate is healthy, however I think it is ultimately futile as the vast majority of people tend to be entrenched in their views and no amount of debate can change that. With that in mind, the only people ever worth bothering with in Politics etc are the small number of 'undecided' - this small minority are the only ones with any power as it is them who 'swing' votes one way or t'other. I think the vast majority of voters are 'dumb', not in the sense they are stupid, they just blindly vote the way they always have or how their family has. The Labour party represent this in a way, their connection to working class roots has long since waned yet they are viewed as the party of the working class. The irony that a party of millionaires (as a lot of politicians are) 'represent' the working class! This is all a bit off tangent but I maybe we should look to engage/educate/encourage children from as young an age as possible by introducing this into the curriculum? to help future generations actively engage in how the country is governed, why, etc. I also think the media should be governed by a code of some description of how there correspondence is reported, they have far too much sway with their punchy, crass headlines which appeal to the baser instincts of human nature. The biggest issue in all of this is the lies that politicians peddle, surely they should be legally obligated to accurately present their arguments/manifestos. Not a single one of them is honest and how can they be. If Bill and Mary are peddling lies about your ideas and false promises with their own, the only way you can 'win' voters is to play the same game - being 'honest' would be the death knell for your political ambitions.

Good times? Just remember, as painful as all this seems now in a years time it will be a distant hazy memory long forgotton? I dont know what the U values are for your build but the sheer size should surely mean that the internal volume is massive and ventilation heat losses will dominate all else. Everything you do to knock that ACH rate down should surely make a material impact on heat loads?

Cheers Pete, I understand the ASHP --> UFH issue being a cycling issue due to the small volume of water within the UFH pipes. So I can see how sticking a large volume of water in between the two removes the issue. I think I just needed to work through/understand the ramifications of other options. I will plough forward now as you suggested, thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

How are you getting on with the task? Some pics of your install would be good if you don't mind. What size UVC did you go for? I'd like a pre plumbed cylinder for ease, I know on balance it will cost a bit more than buying individual components but it will simplify a self install slightly. However, when I look at 8.5kw ecodans the pre plumbed cylinder packages are for 210l max - I want a 300l (havent actually discussed this with a rep so it may be stable!).

Are you doing this yourself or do you have a plumber involved? What ASHP/tank have you gone for?

One coil in the tank and a low loss header linking that to two UFH circuits? I think I've read so many posts now about not connecting UFH direct to ASHP that I seem to have developed an aversion to the idea!

Thanks for taking a look Peter, appears that I'm more or less along the right lines now. I was trying to work out what the crack there was! Makes sense now you say it. I am splitting this process into four parts: 1. ASHP to UVC & Buffer 2. Cold mains to UVC 3. Balanced hot & cold to manifolds 4. UFH to the buffer Once I have each part sorted I will merge the drawings into a master schematic. I have two UFH manifolds, my plan was to tap into the buffer for them. If i didn't use an indirect buffer then I would have to use an anti-freeze solution for the ground/first floor UFH circuits? I figured separating them hydraulically would keep things simpler/cheaper? I think the first part of my plumbing setup is pretty much there, thanks for the help.?

Well, I have started to focus my attention on the plumbing side of the build now. After a fair bit or reading and looking at other layouts etc. I have come up with an updated version, basically an amalgamation of everything I've come across so far. A few queries I still have: Is the filter supposed to go on the cold return? Should there be an air vent on the primary circuit somewhere? Should the PRV be there? The drawing from an Ecodan manual shows one, yet elsewhere I read not to put one in? Does it matter what order the components go in i.e. of the cold return loop? Flow sensor - is that needed? I came across a couple of drawings which showed one. Any feedback would be appreciated. TIA