Help- Tender costs too high

[Ferdinand]

@Mrs S

 

Some plan comments. Being provocative.

 

To me that whole area around the garage / utility / entranceway / stairs is a bit of a mess. A rabbit warren that should deliver far more value for the floorspace. IMO:

 

1 - That garage is partly 5.1m long. May not count as a parking space.

2 - Why 2 loos downstairs, and that strange Jack and Jill upstairs?

3 - As discussed before, the insulated envelope is complex, as are the walls.

4 - That staircase looks tight for such a relaxed house.

5 - Balcony? Hmm - why? There is another bigger one within about 10ft on the other side if someone wants to use it. Personally I like the over-dining one. 

 

Suggestions:

 

1 - Upstairs, Drop the end balcony. Unnecesessary. Make it Juliets and get a bigger lounge, then you can sit on your inside balcony in the warmth with a cocktail in December with the same view. I would rearrange that window (offset or x2) so the room could potentially be split into 2 doubles / study(s) later. 

2- I don't understand a shower-loo straight off a lounge. Feels like a bodge forced because the store is in the wrong place, @AnonymousBosch has one of these that will open up secretly like a James Bond spy complex, but with a specific reason. Split it into 2 - one for the bedroom, and a family loo off the hallway (rearrange plant room?). If you absorb the balcony into the lounge, you can nick a bit of lounge for the entrance if needed. Given that you are all ensuite, I would consider squaring that off with the lunge alcove and putting the *bath* in there, rather than in the master ensuite.

3 - Those stairs are too steep. Making them say 36-38 degrees will make the house feel far more luxurious. It just does. 42 degrees is for estate houses and developer boxes and if it cannot be avoided.

4 -  Make the garage a real double - minimum size to count as parking spaces perhaps 6m wide x 5.6m long (ish). That will mean revising your attractive entrance route, but that will also help simplify and save.

5 - Put the obtangular insulated envelope around all of it, including the garage.

6 - Then fit the rest around that, which should be easier and a lot less expensive.

7 - Personally, put the garage-house door in the utility, and get rid of the second loo in the utility (if necessary put a door from utility - accessible loo).

8 - I like the Mackintosh-esque double gables of similar height, varying width on the top side of the plan, but having the eaves line lower seems to complicate everything with that roof. However, to change that would imo be very fundamental.

 

I have now abolished your very nice drama-generating but somewhat crippling-for-everything-else entranceway - though I think a front door next to a garage door is rather too modest. I would deal with that by having a pointed or segmented arch entranceway (*) to the RHS of the garage, which would signal "front door here", either with a wrought iron or solid gate, and an entrance in the corner of the dining room / garage wing. If necessary add 600 or 900 to the dining room single storey bit to make it fit. If you wanted a covered walkway or arcade over the path there it would be possible now or later. I might apply a similar or echoing treatment to the heads of the garage doors, or the doors themselves.

 

* I would have considered a round brick arch but that is more Surrey than Scottish. Though a round arch in a pointy-topped wall might work ... as I have sometimes (I think) seen on small clan burial sites. 

 

You have a lot on this thread - don't try to absorb, accept or reject in quick time - allow a couple of weeks and run some numbers.

 

Look up Visti's cost reduction thread here:

Ferdinand

 

PS Have you provisioned for a lift / stair lift?

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Mrs S]

51 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

@Mrs S

 

Some plan comments. Being provocative.

 

To me that whole area around the garage / utility / entranceway / stairs is a bit of a mess. A rabbit warren that should deliver far more value for the floorspace. IMO:

 

1 - That garage is partly 5.1m long. May not count as a parking space.

2 - Why 2 loos downstairs, and that strange Jack and Jill upstairs?

3 - As discussed before, the insulated envelope is complex, as are the walls.

4 - That staircase looks tight for such a relaxed house.

5 - Balcony? Hmm - why? There is another bigger one within about 10ft on the other side if someone wants to use it. Personally I like the over-dining one. 

 

Suggestions:

 

1 - Upstairs, Drop the end balcony. Unnecesessary. Make it Juliets and get a bigger lounge, then you can sit on your inside balcony in the warmth with a cocktail in December with the same view. I would rearrange that window (offset or x2) so the room could potentially be split into 2 doubles / study(s) later. 

2- I don't understand a shower-loo straight off a lounge. Feels like a bodge forced because the store is in the wrong place, @AnonymousBosch has one of these that will open up secretly like a James Bond spy complex, but with a specific reason. Split it into 2 - one for the bedroom, and a family loo off the hallway (rearrange plant room?). If you absorb the balcony into the lounge, you can nick a bit of lounge for the entrance if needed. Given that you are all ensuite, I would consider squaring that off with the lunge alcove and putting the *bath* in there, rather than in the master ensuite.

3 - Those stairs are too steep. Making them say 36-38 degrees will make the house feel far more luxurious. It just does. 42 degrees is for estate houses and developer boxes and if it cannot be avoided.

4 -  Make the garage a real double - minimum size to count as parking spaces perhaps 6m wide x 5.6m long (ish). That will mean revising your attractive entrance route, but that will also help simplify and save.

5 - Put the obtangular insulated envelope around all of it, including the garage.

6 - Then fit the rest around that, which should be easier and a lot less expensive.

7 - Personally, put the garage-house door in the utility, and get rid of the second loo in the utility (if necessary put a door from utility - accessible loo).

8 - I like the Mackintosh-esque double gables of similar height, varying width on the top side of the plan, but having the eaves line lower seems to complicate everything with that roof. However, to change that would imo be very fundamental.

 

I have now abolished your very nice drama-generating but somewhat crippling-for-everything-else entranceway - though I think a front door next to a garage door is rather too modest. I would deal with that by having a pointed or segmented arch entranceway (*) to the RHS of the garage, which would signal "front door here", either with a wrought iron or solid gate, and an entrance in the corner of the dining room / garage wing. If necessary add 600 or 900 to the dining room single storey bit to make it fit. If you wanted a covered walkway or arcade over the path there it would be possible now or later. I might apply a similar or echoing treatment to the heads of the garage doors, or the doors themselves.

 

* I would have considered a round brick arch but that is more Surrey than Scottish. Though a round arch in a pointy-topped wall might work ... as I have sometimes (I think) seen on small clan burial sites. 

 

You have a lot on this thread - don't try to absorb, accept or reject in quick time - allow a couple of weeks and run some numbers.

 

Look up Visti's cost reduction thread here:

Ferdinand

 

PS Have you provisioned for a lift / stair lift?

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this @Ferdinand, a lot to take in & think about.

Let me attempt to explain our reasoning ?

- we have 2 loo’s downstairs, as I didn’t want to have to trail through the house to use the loo, after I’d been out working in the garden. 

- the balcony from the upstairs lounge was the architect’s suggestion and we kept it as it’s South facing and will allow us to enjoy the summer evenings.

- the balcony over the dining room is there for our coastal views, & we have further plans for it once we have the budget.

- the shower room off the lounge, jack n Jill style has been done that way, as the lounge will also be used for guests staying over.

- the “plant room” in in fact a storage cupboard, as I felt we lacked storage, so utilised some hall space. The Plant will be down in the garage.

- I am the only person in our family that likes a bath, & I wanted it in the master room  to be more relaxed.

- the stairs I can’t answer for, that again was my architects doing

- I agree completely about the garage/ entrance way, but we don’t have the room to make it a double, as we have to leave rights of access up the back of our property.

- the roof is not the design we wanted, but we had no option as our initial design was rejected by planning for being “too modern & urban” for the area. This is basically what the planners suggested the architect to do, in order for us to pass planning.

- one of our suggestions was a corner entranceway, which would have given us a more open hall, which we wanted, instead of the corridor, but was told we didn’t have the room.

- As per Scottish Building Warrant rules, a provisional space has to be made for a chair stair lift in every new build. 

If it comes to it, we will use the area to the side and put in a lift, using the storage area upstairs.

 

Thank you for all your comments & suggestions as every bit of advice counts. I will sit down with my hubby later with a glass of red and think about what you have written & if it’s still possible for us to implement them  ?

[Mrs S]

9 hours ago, Triple07 said:

Hiya, we r  just coming to the end of our self build in Aberdeenshire (Lonmay), we did the majority of work ourselves outsourcing only the electrics (FYI 5k) bricky/harling and kitchen worktops. My husband has is a joiner so would complete our work evenings and weekends. It has taken us nearly 3year, It has not been easy and took VERY careful budgeting, hampered mainly by our first house not selling, but it has given us a home we could never have afforded to buy.

 Given the nature of our hands on selfbuild i had lots of ordering and to do. Every nail, brick, slate and stick was ordered by myself and this saved us hugely financially. I reduced my work hours to 3 days to allow for this but what we lost in pay we more than made up for in PM and materials savings. A contractor isnt going to go round several companies trying to save on each item. The difference between certain suppliers was shocking.

 I’d strongly urge you to consider self-PM using individual trades, you could even use one contractor to get you to a watertight shell then subcontract from there. If ur flexible with timescale it will take some of the stress off.

Regarding the tight access, We made our timber frame kit ourselves on site which saved approx 30k. I’m sure their would be smaller joinery company’s able to do this locally and this should still offer substantial savings.

Painting is also something you could likely do yourselves (although don’t underestimate how labour intensive this is... and mind numbing) but it could easily save you £10k plus on a house your size. 

Another thing to consider whilst comparing roof prices Is although the slate is cheaper to purchase than the zinc, slating is labour intensive. 

Pay careful attention to what allowances you have been given in your tendered quotes for kitchens, bathrooms, tiles etc as often it’s too low and something most people will upspec on.

We purchased our own scaffold and sold it afterwords for same cost, likewise steel container for storage. 

Our home is approx 360m2 with integral garage. Like urs it is also slate roofed , walls are granite fieldstone and render (harked as exposed site) with areas of cedar cladding. Your plans look ambitious for your budget if going the turnkey route but manageable with some compromise if going the PM route. 

My SIL was designed a house, also to be built in Aberdeenshire that could never have been built within budget.  There is so much work available in the NE it is driving labour costs up. Another thing we need to consider up here is property price ceiling, i don’t know exactly where you are building but where we are it would be easy to spend more than market value if you get carried away. 

On another side note if you did need to scale back now but in the future go back and make alterations for disability they could be VAT free if it is a disability/chronic illness (not the bedroom tho but washrooms etc) worth looking into maybe?

 

Thanks, you brought up some good points. Apparently we have overestimated for our bathrooms & kitchen, so we’ve saved money already ??

It’s the final market value of the house when we come to sell it that has dictated our budget. Hence, why we’ve limited ourselves to the home values in our area. Yes, I agree, it is easy to get carried away, but I’m the one who is loath to part with money not my husband, so I am usually quite good at sourcing a good deal. Also design names don’t interest me, as long as the product does what it’s supposed to, I am happy - shoot me down now ?

I think we have agreed that we will go down the route of me being PM , I am good at organising whereas my husband is the more practical one.

[PeterW]

1 minute ago, Mrs S said:

Also design names don’t interest me, as long as the product does what it’s supposed to, I am happy - shoot me down now

 

Just be very careful with this, as there are some things that you really do not want to drop quality on.

 

For example, there are a number of manufacturers of WC frames, Geberit being the leader, and there are numerous copies out there. Geberit frames can be had for £150 or so, copies for £90-100. Spares for geberit are off the shelf, and they are easily swapped out. Copies are not.... Ask @newhome about spares and fixing non-standard items !

 

You may save £50, but it will be dwarfed by the cost of fitting and maintenance. 

[Bitpipe]

14 hours ago, Triple07 said:

A contractor isn't going to go round several companies trying to save on each item. The difference between certain suppliers was shocking. 

 

Great observation (among all the others). Contractors will often choose a supplier for convenience, credit terms etc but rarely for price - as the client pays that.

 

When I took receipt of my QS spreadsheet (which ran to 20 something pages), I was able to start knocking off £1000s buy getting competitive quotes from subs and suppliers which gave me confidence that we would be able to build on our budget vs the estimate.

 

Another word of caution - what's your contingency fund? You may run into unexpected situations that require extra funds.

 

Also, have you priced in site insurance, fencing & safety, site WC and amenities, services and build warranty (required if you need to sell or borrow against the build in the next 10 years).