External roller blinds for windows and doors

[Gow]

22 hours ago, Nick said:

I know there are UK suppliers of external roller blinds.

I've fitted them. It's pretty simple. Aluminium casing holding the motor / wireless controller and blind material just needs to be either face fixed or top fixed to something.

The French firm Avos Dim supplies PVC and aluminium roller shutters.  Manual blinds are less troublesome as the cord is easy to replace but in 27 years we did not have to replace the cord once!

[Gow]

22 hours ago, lizzie said:

 Re: electric supply for blinds

There are manual versions and they work well.  I speak from experience.  We had them in our house in France

[Gow]

22 hours ago, Nick said:

The cost and bulk of the batteries would make it very impractical even if there was enough demand to justify designing it.

There are manual pvc and wooden blinds.  The manual pvc roller shutters are readily available in France, Germany and Poland etc

[Nick]

8 minutes ago, Gow said:

The French firm Avos Dim supplies PVC and aluminium roller shutters.  Manual blinds are less troublesome as the cord is easy to replace but in 27 years we did not have to replace the cord once!

 

1 minute ago, Gow said:

There are manual pvc and wooden blinds.  The manual pvc roller shutters are readily available in France, Germany and Poland etc

 

I take it the cord is on the outside of the building then? Is there a solution for windows higher than the ground floor?

[Gow]

21 hours ago, puntloos said:

.......'not super helpful' when it comes to heat.

What heat?  We live in Scotland.

 

The roller blinds offer a degree of security on doors and windows.  With the roller blinds shut, the burglar would have to come down through the chimney like santa claus. They also block out the daylight in much the same way as black out blinds and noise to a degree.  As for their thermal properties we are more concerned with keeping the cold out - every little helps!

[Gow]

 

13 hours ago, Nick said:

I take it the cord is on the outside of the building then? Is there a solution for windows higher than the ground floor?

 

No the cord is like a wide ribbon and it is also rolled into spring-loaded cassette. This Youtube is pictorial

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

It looks like that would be difficult to fit whilst maintaining reasonable vapour and air tightness, as there doesn't seem to be any seal around the tape.  Probably better to run a cable through the wall, as that could be sealed up well.

[puntloos]

Does anyone have some detail on effectiveness of these rollers versus nothing versus awnings?

 

With the whole global warming thing (and also just experience) it's obvious that a house that keeps naturally cool is of paramount importance. I don't want to aircondition if I don't have to

[Russdl]

We are planning on using Phantom Screens externally on some of our windows and sliders. They will be concealed in the space available behind the cladding plus the timber frame will be recessed above the windows/sliders that we plan to screen. 

 

Their website has links to sectional drawings and further technical bumpf. Never used them before so I can’t comment on their effectiveness, ease of cleaning etc.  

 

https://www.phantom-fly-screens.co.uk/power-blinds-up-to-12m-wide.html

[craig]

15 hours ago, joth said:

 

Hi @craig 

 

These do look great.

 

Do you have cross section drawings (similar to JSHarris posted above) for how the blind recess is detailed into the wall/window opening of the Roma/Gaulhofer venetian blinds? The two things I'd like to research are: how set-back do the windows need to be in their reveals for these to be effectively hidden in the lintel, and how much impact will they have on that part of the wall's thermal insulation. Our 4 WSW facing windows are in a new-build wall so should have the flexibility in placement to facility these, but we have one SSE facing window that is in existing wall (due to be externally insulated) so bit more constrained on making it work.

 

As I mentioned on the phone the other day, we're also in a conservation area, and our architect was sufficiently concerned that this was the one thing we omitted form our planning app. Now that that looks like it will be accepted, and we're much further down the line on selecting windows (???) I really want to see about at the very least designing in the facility to add these later.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

You’ll need to make an enquiry, sorry. Here is not the right place.

 

Apologies, hope you understand.

[Jeremy Harris]

10 hours ago, puntloos said:

Does anyone have some detail on effectiveness of these rollers versus nothing versus awnings?

 

With the whole global warming thing (and also just experience) it's obvious that a house that keeps naturally cool is of paramount importance. I don't want to aircondition if I don't have to

 

The manufacturers quote a solar gain reduction of around 90% for the ones I've looked at.  If I had to guess I'd say that an awning is probably more effective than a blind or shutter, as there's no semi-closed air gap to heat up, although it may well be that the Venetian style external blinds are well enough ventilated to not allow much heat build up behind them.  There may well be some re-radiation from the rear of the blinds, though. 

 

An awning or brise soleil  would have the advantage of providing very good ventilation underneath it, so may well reduce solar gain a bit more.  The other advantage of an awning or brise soleil is that the windows can be opened easily.  A roller blind or shutter would only allow inward opening or sliding windows to open, and inward opening windows aren't that common here (not sure why, might be related to historical weather tightness concerns).

[jack]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

The manufacturers quote a solar gain reduction of around 90% for the ones I've looked at.  If I had to guess I'd say that an awning is probably more effective than a blind or shutter, as there's no semi-closed air gap to heat up, although it may well be that the Venetian style external blinds are well enough ventilated to not allow much heat build up behind them.  There may well be some re-radiation from the rear of the blinds, though. 

 

Ours are extraordinarily good at keeping the sun out. We have several large west-facing windows with external (uninsulated) aluminium venetian blinds. When they're down, there's no perceptible radiant heat, even with the western sun beating on them on a hot day. I don't doubt that some heat gets by, but it isn't particularly noticeable. Even fully closed, there're 5-15mm gaps at the sides, plus the holes for the guides and small gaps between the slats themselves, which I'm sure allows some of the heat between the window and blind to escape.

 

Another thing is that they're quite useful for privacy. We very rarely retract the ones at the front of the house, because they help stop people seeing in.

 

Something I didn't expect is that we quite like the look of the house when the blinds are down but open. They add to the look of the house imo.

 

One thing they aren't at all good at is blocking out all light. On east-facing windows particularly, enough of the early morning sun in summer gets through the gaps at the slat edges, and even the holes for the guides, to make the room noticeably bright from very early in the morning. We mistakenly made no provision for recessed internal blockout blinds or curtains, thinking we wouldn't need them. This is the main disadvantage of this particular type of blind imo (that and the fact they provide literally zero security, since you can just lift them up like ordinary venetian blinds.

[jack]

14 hours ago, Gow said:

 

There are two types of fittings, one is built in and one which can be retrofitted but I am not sure if these would be suitable for most UK windows as continental windows have larger inside and outside sill

 

We had the ancient wooden version built-in. They were very heavy and had a manual pulley cord.  The cord outlasted the house, which was demolished a couple of years ago. The electric version of the blinds are more problematic as the blind can get stuck inside the cassette.  A big tug on the manual blind solves the problem.

 

See https://avosdim.com/uk/roller-shutters.html

 

They're the company I've been looking at for the retrofit. Happy to hear anyone's experiences with them.

[puntloos]

3 hours ago, jack said:

 

Ours are extraordinarily good at keeping the sun out. We have several large west-facing windows with external (uninsulated) aluminium venetian blinds. When they're down, there's no perceptible radiant heat, even with the western sun beating on them on a hot day. I don't doubt that some heat gets by, but it isn't particularly noticeable. Even fully closed, there're 5-15mm gaps at the sides, plus the holes for the guides and small gaps between the slats themselves, which I'm sure allows some of the heat between the window and blind to escape.

 

Another thing is that they're quite useful for privacy. We very rarely retract the ones at the front of the house, because they help stop people seeing in.

 

Something I didn't expect is that we quite like the look of the house when the blinds are down but open. They add to the look of the house imo.

 

One thing they aren't at all good at is blocking out all light. On east-facing windows particularly, enough of the early morning sun in summer gets through the gaps at the slat edges, and even the holes for the guides, to make the room noticeably bright from very early in the morning. We mistakenly made no provision for recessed internal blockout blinds or curtains, thinking we wouldn't need them. This is the main disadvantage of this particular type of blind imo (that and the fact they provide literally zero security, since you can just lift them up like ordinary venetian blinds.

Do you have some pictures for us? (either yours, or just brochure pictures is fine)

I'm trying to imagine this, but my gut feeling is it wouldn't look 'elegant', but it sounds like a great solution for our front. (our plot is SE facing, if that matters)

 

Happy to be proven wrong. Although I'm 99% certainly going for awnings in our back yard because they also provide a great 'living area'.

[puntloos]

5 hours ago, JSHarris said:

 

The manufacturers quote a solar gain reduction of around 90% for the ones I've looked at.  If I had to guess I'd say that an awning is probably more effective than a blind or shutter, as there's no semi-closed air gap to heat up, although it may well be that the Venetian style external blinds are well enough ventilated to not allow much heat build up behind them.  There may well be some re-radiation from the rear of the blinds, though. 

 

An awning or brise soleil  would have the advantage of providing very good ventilation underneath it, so may well reduce solar gain a bit more.  The other advantage of an awning or brise soleil is that the windows can be opened easily.  A roller blind or shutter would only allow inward opening or sliding windows to open, and inward opening windows aren't that common here (not sure why, might be related to historical weather tightness concerns). 

 

Yep, awnings seem to be a better solution IMO, especially if you can manage very wide (and therefore deep) ones. But they don't work everywhere, in particular my current house design has a bit of a 'stretched L' shape, which has good reasons (err.. I think), but will make the awnings clash a bit. Not yet sure if it's something I should care about..

 

 

[jack]

1 hour ago, puntloos said:

Do you have some pictures for us? (either yours, or just brochure pictures is fine)

I'm trying to imagine this, but my gut feeling is it wouldn't look 'elegant', but it sounds like a great solution for our front. (our plot is SE facing, if that matters)

 

Happy to be proven wrong. Although I'm 99% certainly going for awnings in our back yard because they also provide a great 'living area'.

 

I don't really share pics of my house on t'internet, but they look something like this (albeit with horizontal larch cladding, and with the windows/blinds recessed about another 400mm inwards):

 

 

In the white-painted brick sections of the house, they're set back about as much as in the photo above. As shown in this photo, you don't need to close the blinds completely to get most of the benefit. I prefer them slightly open like this, and only close them when it's very hot and the sun is directly on them, and at night.

 

I think they look "elegant", as you put it, but our house is extremely modern, so I think it works.

 

I can't see how awnings are a replacement for some sort of per-window solution like blinds or roller shutters in all but very limited areas. There are about three places in our house where some sort of awning might work. One of those is outside a big south-facing slider, but the height of the slider means that the awning would need to be huge to keep out the spring and autumn sun. We're lucky to have a tree that provides some shade in this area, so for the moment we don't have any shading treatment on that opening.

 

The other two points have 1.2m overhangs due to balconies above them, so already have a decent bit of solar control. They also have blinds, which helps on summer mornings (they're east-facing).

 

I can't see how awnings are a solution for first floor windows, windows along the side of a property or street-facing windows.

 

If you don't much like the look of blinds, that's fine - just leave them fully retracted (they're invisible) unless you actually need them. 

[Adam2]

On 04/05/2019 at 23:59, Russdl said:

We are planning on using Phantom Screens externally on some of our windows and sliders. They will be concealed in the space available behind the cladding plus the timber frame will be recessed above the windows/sliders that we plan to screen. 

 

Their website has links to sectional drawings and further technical bumpf. Never used them before so I can’t comment on their effectiveness, ease of cleaning etc.  

 

https://www.phantom-fly-screens.co.uk/power-blinds-up-to-12m-wide.html

 

Hi - resurrecting this old thread to see if you went ahead with phantom as I'm also looking at this as an option.

 

Considering internal vs external - I appreciate external would generally be better as blocking unwanted solar gain BUT I wonder if in practice the relatively few days where this is a problem you'd want the doors/windows open anyway for increased ventilation so meaning you may as well have them on the inside. Inside fitting could have advantages - motors longevity and being  easier to conceal in ceiling

 

 

[Russdl]

@Adam2 We did fit the Phantom screens externally which was not particularly straight forward as I wanted to devise a way of hiding them whilst still making them accessible, sounds easy but with our choice of cladding it wasn’t. We aren’t moved in yet but have used them in anger this last year and they do work well. 
 

Were I to do it all again...

 

I would do exactly the same and use Phantom Screens externally.  As we’ve built to passive standards having them internally would be largely useless I think. They are mesh so you can have the doors/windows open (our windows open inwards) and a breeze may get through.
 

Looking out from inside they are almost invisible (we’ve all managed to walk into a blind that was down).

 

From the outside looking in they provide a great deal of privacy. 

[Adam2]

Cheers @Russdl yes I'll need to think on how we could get something concealed with an exterior installation as we plan to push the sliding doors towards the outside of the wall.

Glad you like them. They certainly look premium in the online images

[Gow]

On 05/11/2020 at 21:27, Adam2 said:

...how we could get something concealed with an exterior installation as we plan to push the sliding doors towards the outside of the wall.

Glad you like them. They certainly look premium in the online images

On the Continent of Europe these blinds are cheap or expensive for the wooden version and the cassette can be installed internally or externally. There is the choice of manual or motorised.

roller_blinds.pdf

[Adam2]

Thanks @Gow I like the look of the Phantom blinds and being very lightweight can have super wide sections if needed. I think we'd not use very often and mainly due to glare or to prevent over-heating. The over-heating I modelled and it doesn't seem to be a problem for much of the year and really only likely to be an actual problem in the peak temps of summer. Will look at other possible suppliers of these thinner products as well 

 

 

[skeg0]

Hi @Gow  I just wondered whether you went ahead with the roller shutters in your project and whether you could give any notes on your experience with Avos Dim? If that is indeed who you went with. We are also looking to install roller shutters in our self build project (also in Scotland) - and are influenced by shutters in Germany where we spend a lot of time. I get the impression that UK providers may not be as cheap as European, so keen to learn of any experience you have.

 

As part of our building warrant application, we have been asked to provide information on what happens in the event of an emergency and the shutters are down. With manual this wouldn't be an issue, but electric, with a power cut, raises some concerns with building standards it seems  - did you have anything similar? 

 

Cheers!

[Gow]

I lived abroad and had very heavy wooden shutters on the front of the house and added light-weight pvc ones to the back rooms and door. In the 30+ years I lived in that house I only had to have  the sash ribbons replaced on two of the windows, two of  those with the heavy wooden blinds. All wooden blinds at the front of the house were manually operated and worked a treat. The blinds outlived the house, which was demolished along with the neighbour's house and the land used for a block of flats.

 

Avois Dim did not reply to my enquiry and the extension on my house is turning into a living nightmare so no blinds and no extension for the moment.

 

Apart from the in-built blinds it is also possible to add on a cassette system to the exterior of the house. There's plenty of info online on several French websites. Search "leroy merlin volet roulant". There are also several German and Polish websites where you will find info in English but you have to dig deep because you will be shown a wide array of internal blinds first. Bonne chance!

 

 

[Gow]

On 10/12/2021 at 12:11, skeg0 said:

Hi @GowWe are also looking to install roller shutters....

 

As part of our building warrant application, we have been asked to provide information on what happens in the event of an emergency and the shutters are down. With manual this wouldn't be an issue, but electric, with a power cut, raises some concerns

Ps All the roller blinds in my former house were manual and trouble-free on the whole. A friend with the electric roller blinds could not open one them when the mechanism was kaputt. It was cheaper to install a new blind than repair the mechanism!