epsilonGreedy Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 I understand SAP-2012 penalizes lpg heating in general even when gas is just a small part of a hybrid heating system. My question is does SAP score space heating and hot water heating independently? For example if a house is heated via electric ASHP and the hotwater via an lpg combi boiler would the score be better than an all LPG space and water heating solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 Why would you have a combi..? If it’s just hot water then you want an instantaneous gas heater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: I understand SAP-2012 penalizes lpg heating in general even when gas is just a small part of a hybrid heating system. My question is does SAP score space heating and hot water heating independently? For example if a house is heated via electric ASHP and the hotwater via an lpg combi boiler would the score be better than an all LPG space and water heating solution? I wouldn’t worry about the Sap score We were supposed to have a bank of solar panels on the roof We still got a good score by a online company If I had told them they had been installed they would have taken my word Sap all done within two hours of contacting them another bit of paper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted April 6, 2019 Author Share Posted April 6, 2019 39 minutes ago, PeterW said: Why would you have a combi..? If it’s just hot water then you want an instantaneous gas heater. I was just exploring options for tweaking my SAP score from the starting point that a basic LPG space and HW combi setup is right for me. It was citing an edge case to try and understand the SAP scoring process. The reason for this is that I visited another self build yesterday where 90mm of PIR cavity wall insulation was used to push the SAP up to a pass mark. At this point in time I get the impression that the presence of an LPG boiler in a new build is mathematical poison for the final SAP score no matter the % KwH it contributes to a home's overall energy requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted April 6, 2019 Author Share Posted April 6, 2019 39 minutes ago, nod said: I wouldn’t worry about the Sap score We were supposed to have a bank of solar panels on the roof We still got a good score by a online company If I had told them they had been installed they would have taken my word Sap all done within two hours of contacting them another bit of paper If I am reading this correctly you went down an as-built route and sorted out the whole SAP-design/EPC certification as an end of build process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: If I am reading this correctly you went down an as-built route and sorted out the whole SAP-design/EPC certification as an end of build process? There's always two stages. You need a design SAP assessment as a part of the building regs approval, but that doesn't need to be done by a registered assessor (I did ours and it was accepted without question). For completion you have to have an as-built assessment, and that has to be by a registered assessor. In our case I also did the as-built SAP and just emailed it to an assessor in Manchester who took my word on everything and lodged the as-built EPC. He didn't ever look at the house or anything associated with it, just the SAP worksheet that I emailed him. As it happens I was honest about the details of the house, but it wouldn't have made any difference if I'd just made up the data. I just randomly picked an assessor and found that all I needed to do was email him the data, which tends to suggest that the SAP process isn't really a very thorough check of the as-built performance of a house. From what I can gather, actually visiting a build to check on the as-built specification is a relatively uncommon practice, so it would seem that it might well be relatively easy to just play the system in order to get a better EPC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 21 minutes ago, JSHarris said: There's always two stages. You need a design SAP assessment as a part of the building regs approval, but that doesn't need to be done by a registered assessor (I did ours and it was accepted without question). For completion you have to have an as-built assessment, and that has to be by a registered assessor. In our case I also did the as-built SAP and just emailed it to an assessor in Manchester who took my word on everything and lodged the as-built EPC. He didn't ever look at the house or anything associated with it, just the SAP worksheet that I emailed him. As it happens I was honest about the details of the house, but it wouldn't have made any difference if I'd just made up the data. I just randomly picked an assessor and found that all I needed to do was email him the data, which tends to suggest that the SAP process isn't really a very thorough check of the as-built performance of a house. From what I can gather, actually visiting a build to check on the as-built specification is a relatively uncommon practice, so it would seem that it might well be relatively easy to just play the system in order to get a better EPC. Did your on line SAP assessor insist on seeing an official air tightness test certificate, or did he just accept a number with no proof where it came from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, ProDave said: Did your on line SAP assessor insist on seeing an official air tightness test certificate, or did he just accept a number with no proof where it came from? He just accepted the data given to him via email. I offered to send the specs of the house from the contract, together with the air test chit and some photos, but in the event he had lodged the certificate before I sent them to him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 55 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: If I am reading this correctly you went down an as-built route and sorted out the whole SAP-design/EPC certification as an end of build process? Yes we had a Sap which included solar panels We didn’t know if this would cause a problem at the end We changed a few things at the beginning of the build and it seemed to be a problem for the Sap company I came to the final Sap and they asked for the installers cert and informed me that we needed to better the average by 25% Somthing I’d missed in planning The online company told me that having solar panels would have given us 3 more points Prijected spend 7 to 9 k Saving is about 284 per year Sort of felt vindicated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 Try having the sap done on the wrong house spec....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, nod said: The online company told me that having solar panels would have given us 3 more points Prijected spend 7 to 9 k Saving is about 284 per year I have said before to be viable, solar PV needs to be cheap. It was hard work finding the kit cheap enough but I got mine for £1500. Should be no more than 6 year payback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 Our BCO was flexible about our as designed SAP in that he accepted my PHPP calculations instead but he required an as built SAP. The SAP assessor wanted copies of all the required certficates before issuing the final SAP and EPC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 1 hour ago, ProDave said: I have said before to be viable, solar PV needs to be cheap. It was hard work finding the kit cheap enough but I got mine for £1500. Should be no more than 6 year payback. That’s more realistic Most who had them installed locally Took advantage of the now stoped government grants I would imagine the companies selling SP arnt making the same profits now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, PeterStarck said: Our BCO was flexible about our as designed SAP in that he accepted my PHPP calculations instead but he required an as built SAP. The SAP assessor wanted copies of all the required certficates before issuing the final SAP and EPC. BC asked for gas and alectrical certs etc The as built Sap wanted lots of detail about boiler cylinder etc I could have just made it up No proof asked for Gov standards are pretty low and as selbuilders they are easy to exceed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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