Warranty for a self builder

[Sue B]

At the NEC Homebuilding and Renovating show this weekend we made initial contact with several warranty providers to get details ready to send our details off for a quote once planning permission is in.  AEDIS were very nice and we settled down to give them some details.  We got to the question of main contractor and of course - that is us.  They were very apologetic but wouldn't be able to give us a quotation without a main contractor as we may not be competent. This is surely what the warranty is supposed to check, especially if they are building control aswell.  If we were completely hands off on our build and hire a shonky builder, we would be relying on building control and the warranty inspectors to highlight the failings of our builders.  Just goes to prove that they expect payment for a paper excercise rather than a true check that what you are doing is safe.

 

We went back to some of the other companies that we had spoken with and they were all ok with it, provided that the checks were completed appropriately by both building control and the warranty provider (or the same person if the warranty is providing the building control as well) they would be happy.

[nod]

We had a simalar exsperience 

I told them that there was no main contractor and I was going to build the house myself They weren’t interested Buildzone where fine In the event of a claim 

I don’t exspect any of them to ever pay out

On my next build I won’t bother with a waurentee I would just buy one retrospectively if we decided to sell 

 

[K78]

I’m not bothering with one. 

[nod]

We have had two visits in total

One he didn’t get out of the car 

to muddy

Hes asked for all my certs after BC have signed off 

Im not sure if he will come out for sign off The money spent would have paid for a nice holiday 

[Sue B]

We will definitely go for one as even after the 10

years, some mortgage companies apparently like to see that once was in place even though it may have run out - bizarre I know and maybe no more than scare tactics to make you buy one.

[newhome]

28 minutes ago, nod said:

Hes asked for all my certs after BC have signed off 

Im not sure if he will come out for sign off 

 

Mine didn’t come for sign off. Must be the same guy ?

[nod]

32 minutes ago, Sue B said:

We will definitely go for one as even after the 10

years, some mortgage companies apparently like to see that once was in place even though it may have run out - bizarre I know and maybe no more than scare tactics to make you buy one.

I agree 

A friend who self built has just taken one out four years on In order to sell

Hrs paid an exstra thousand 

[nod]

28 minutes ago, newhome said:

 

Mine didn’t come for sign off. Must be the same guy ?

Ha ha 

Not worth the paper that they are printed on

[newhome]

36 minutes ago, nod said:

Ha ha 

Not worth the paper that they are printed on

 

I have no idea what the mortgage companies think they are getting as have any of these policies ever paid out? The house has to be pretty much condemned for NHBC to pay out. 

[epsilonGreedy]

5 hours ago, newhome said:

I have no idea what the mortgage companies think they are getting as have any of these policies ever paid out? The house has to be pretty much condemned for NHBC to pay out. 

 

 

I imagine they are using the absence of a warranty as a signal to filter out potential trouble rather than seeking reassurance in the event of actual trouble.

 

p.s. I will not have a warranty and think the whole industry is a sham.

Edited April 1, 2019 by epsilonGreedy

[newhome]

4 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

I imagine they are using the absence of a warranty as a signal to filter out potential trouble rather than seeking reassurance in the event of actual trouble.

 

I imagine the reason is ‘because they can’. I suspect they are taking a much greater risk with a very old property than a relatively new one. They’d be better off insisting on a full structural survey than the silly mortgage valuation affair. 

[epsilonGreedy]

6 minutes ago, newhome said:

I imagine the reason is ‘because they can’.

 

 

Having decided to compete for business in the self-build market why would they then reduce that market size based on nothing more than a "because we can" ego trip?

 

The original business strategy conversation would have gone like this.

 

"Any other items on the agenda?"

"Yes sir we have not decided whether to enter the self build market."

Yawns around the table, people look at their watches.

"Why bother it is only 0.000000001% of the mortgage market?

"I am hearing rumours that big bad rival bank sees self-build as a high margin business with growth potential, look at all these TV programs".

"Do we really want to be exposed to all these mixed ability self-builders, they are cranks, loonies and dreamers, I don't want us offering mortgages on tree houses like the one on grand designs the other week".

"Well sir if we stipulate independent third party warranties that will filter out filter out the ex. hippie shanty town segment of self builders".

"Ok we cannot let big bad rival get ahead of us, let's run a 2 year trial. Warranties only and I don't want the self build book to grow north of £50 mil during the trial".

[lizzie]

I am aware of several claims paid under NHBC warranties.  Not self builds.  They do pay out but they, like most insurers, try to eliminate every other prospect of someone else paying first.

 

One claim was for a roof.  The tiles failed after about 8 years.......almost every tile. The developer was adamant it was not an installation defect, the tile manufacturer had been bought out by someone else, records scant etc etc poor customer left with failed roof.  In the end NHBC paid out for complete re-tile of entire roof.  No idea if they ever recovered anything from manufacturer. 

[Jeremy Harris]

My one and only experience with NHBC was dire.  We bought a new house (had been the show house on a  small development, so was really 2 years old) and about a year later started noticing water stains on a bedroom ceiling.  Investigation showed that water was getting in around the chimney breast.  NHBC tried every trick in the book to get out of paying, and in the end we got our lawyer on to them.  We paid for an inspection, with clear photos showing that the lead flashing had been fitted by an idiot (the overlaps were the wrong way around, believe it or not). 

 

Despite the hard evidence of the defect, NHBC still refused to sort it, and in the end our lawyer suggested that it would be cheaper for us to just get the flashing fixed ourselves, rather than continue to try and pursue NHBC.

 

We concluded that an NHBC warrantly wasn't worth the paper it was printed on, and vowed never to have anything to do with them ever again.

[joe90]

I too have not bothered with one, I have been told you can buy an indemnity IF we ever sell (which we don’t plan to do till we’re past it?).

[K78]

On 01/04/2019 at 06:32, Sue B said:

We will definitely go for one as even after the 10

years, some mortgage companies apparently like to see that once was in place even though it may have run out - bizarre I know and maybe no more than scare tactics to make you buy one.

 

That isn’t the case for the majority. 

 

I spent 12 years managing mortgage advisors. Building control sign off and a survey satisfy most.

 

When I think of some of the severely rotten old houses I’ve bought with self cert and buy to let mortgages. They aren’t that fussy.

 

Even lease issues can be covered with a £150 indemnity policy.

 

Their biggest concerns are your income, outgoings, equity and credit score.

 

HBOS lend against some construction types other big providers don’t. Such as the old council “tin” steel framed corrugated houses you see in some areas. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by K78

[K78]

On 01/04/2019 at 13:12, joe90 said:

I too have not bothered with one, I have been told you can buy an indemnity IF we ever sell (which we don’t plan to do till we’re past it?).

 

They are not expensive either. 

[K78]

On 01/04/2019 at 07:45, newhome said:

 

I have no idea what the mortgage companies think they are getting as have any of these policies ever paid out? The house has to be pretty much condemned for NHBC to pay out. 

 

NHBC is to give large scale builders a independent guarantee to dupe new home buyers into thinking they are getting a high quality home with a 10 year warranty. It also makes their mass produced homes instantly mortgageable. 

 

Mortgage companies don’t give a sh!t about NHBC really. Just makes it easy for big builders to shift a lot of units quickly.

 

Imagine having to get indemnity policies on the amount of houses persimmon sell for example. NHBC makes sense for them but not a self builder. 

 

They also have the added bonus that many dissatisfied customers with poorly constructed, mass built houses persue the NHBC rather than them directly. Until they realise their 10 year warranty is basically worthless. 

 

It’s a scam. 

[lizzie]

@K78 you still have the mindset of the purchaser to get past and ‘self build’ can scare some people as they think it may not be as well done as a builder (yes I know not the case but joe public doesn't),  Having a warranty even an expired one gives them comfort.

[K78]

9 minutes ago, lizzie said:

@K78 you still have the mindset of the purchaser to get past and ‘self build’ can scare some people as they think it may not be as well done as a builder (yes I know not the case but joe public doesn't),  Having a warranty even an expired one gives them comfort.

 

That’s a fair point. But I honestly think the recent horror stories with persimmon, Barrett etc have changed the mindset of most regarding the quality of mass build modern houses and NHBC. 

 

I imagine 99% of houses built by someone to live in themselves tend to be a higher quality than houses threw up as quickly as possible to minimum regs, by builders on a block rate. 

 

In terms of purchaser mindset. When I sold houses the majority of buyers were not interested in new or modern builds at all. Due to poor quality, plot spacing, small gardens, tiny garages, tiny rooms, low ceilings etc. 

 

A structural engineers report or full survey would give most buyers,(and all mortgage companies) more reassurance than a expired warranty. 

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by K78

[lizzie]

@K78I agree with houses built individually being better than mass new builds but the term ‘self build’ can still scare some people and I dont think they are necessarily the people who would be looking at buying on a huge housing estate. Most of the buying public think nhbc and the like is a good comfort to have, indemnity tends to be scary for them in my experience but hey ho the buying public are a fickle bunch no telling what will please and the old saying about not pleasing all the people all the time etc holds true.

 

Got a ‘self build’ tf with 10 year warranty here can be yours for the right price LOL