NRSWA permits and contractors

[AliG]

I am really quite annoyed at bureaucracy today.

 

At my own expense we repaired 40m of pavement in front of my house when we had the new driveway installed.

 

The street is in the odd situation where the road is adopted but not the footpath, so the footpath belongs to me.

 

Many houses in the street have just red chips for the footpath and some have an unsightly overgrown mess. I suspect this is actually to discourage use of the path as it belongs to the householder anyway.

 

When we repaired the path we found in one place the path had a steep slope on it that we thought could be improved. Further investigation showed that this is due to missing kerbstones and a sunk area in the road.

 

My builder was going to put in new kerbstones so we could riase the dip and finish everything off nicely. Then he realised that this involved working on the road which needs a permit.

 

I thought I would call the council and see what they said as I am doing a public service helping people out.

 

 I spoke to someone in the local office and he was sympathetic but says that we need a permit and an approved contractor. This will close to double the cost of the repair.

 

Of course I could just leave it and not be public spirited, I am effectively being charged by the council to improve the local area.

 

On top of that the road is in a woeful state and you can see that it has in the past been repaired ignoring the correct standards. They have just surfaced over cobbles with 20mm of tar andit is eroding over time. Apparently the regulations don't apply to them.

 

Any thoughts on what I can do here?

 

Pavement before i repaired it

 

 

 

Fixed Pavement

 

 

 

Problem areas

 

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by AliG

[ProDave]

Given the diabolical state of the road, I would do nothing just yet, and make a weekly "road defect" report to your local council. (up here you can fill in a road defect report on line)

 

There is a road defect in our road that has not been repaired and some of the local residents are trying to drum up support for us all en-mass withholding our council tax payments until it is repaired. The neighbour believes that if we instead lodge our council tax payments with a solicitor, he will be able to argue we are not refusing to pay, and the money is there for them to be released  when they agree to spend it fixing the problem.

[Mr Punter]

Could you request that they repair the road, as it is adopted?

[AliG]

At some point I will start on the state of the road.

 

Although the surface has been scrubbed away and looks a mess, there aren't actually any potholes and so it is reasonably flat. I cannot therefore see it being a priority to repair. Looking at it though, it does look as if prior repairs have not been to the correct standard, but I don' know when they last happened.

 

Sadly there are many roads in a similar state and I doubt much will be done. It will get resurfaced when they get round to it.

 

The road was originally private and apparently the residents argued that tanks parked there during the war had damaged it, so got it repaired for free then adopted. The roads off the side of the road are still private and are a mess. Annoyingly there is no hard stop between these roads and my road and so my road is scrubbing away at the two junctions where it meets these roads. I really think there should be some kind of kerb inset into the road to stop this.

 

The galling thing though is I want to fix the road and pavement at my own expense. The permit system was put in mainly for people looking to drop kerbs and other things that damage the roads. I want to improve it but end up caught in the same net and there does not appear to be any flexibility in the rules.

[jamieled]

We had a different situation with a council roads department although there are some similarities. Our plot borders a public road, and had some fairly old, overhanging and in some cases rotten trees along the verge. For quite a while the council had been chasing the previous owner to do something, partly as a result of local complaints.

 

We knew we'd need to do work, so it was factored into our finances. The council couldn't have been more helpful - we needed traffic management for the cutting and didn't need to pay for permits etc and they came out to site to look at things quite promptly. While this is a different situation, perhaps encouraging the neighbours to complain might help?

 

I wonder whether it's worth trying a different roads council officer, or failing that, simply complain or write to the chief exec summarising the ridiculous situation - I reckon council officers have little ability to deviate from standard practice unless directed by someone higher up.

[AliG]

I certainly will take it up with my councillor, there is nothing to lose. I don't want to encourage complaints as the land belongs to me so it will be my responsibility to fix it. The road permit situation seems to be statutory, although as far as I can see different councils charge differing amounts for permits.

 

On another note we got a notice served telling us to cut branches away around the streetlights so they can replace the lamps. If we don't the council will do it and charge us. This notice was very vague, I don't really want to hack away at my garden more than necessary . But also the streetlights are on my property so it is not clear that I have to create access at all for the council.

 

You may also note from the pictures that for years the grit bin was actually on the pavement, I have moved it out of people's way into my shrubbery. I am sure if I just put a heavy object in the pavement the council would be the first to tell me to move it. They tell me to cut the hedges every year at the other side of the house where the pavement is adopted.

 

 

[jamiehamy]

Get your man to to do it either on a public holiday or after 1600. Will be done in peace and no-one will be any the wiser. Burden of proof would be on the council if anyone there was actually minded to pursue you fixing the road without a permit....

 

And tell no-one on your street of your intentions. 

[AliG]

Unfortunately I have already asked the council and sent in pictures of it.

 

The builder was all set to do it until he realised this issue, now he doesn't want to be held responsible for it.

[ProDave]

Okay the PATH is yours, not adopted.

 

So the Kerb stones are yours.

 

When i was preparing my site entrance, I queried the rules, and was told you only need a street work permit for work on the highway.  It gets a bit grey on an unfenced highway edge as they can claim the first 3 metres was part of the highway.  

 

I was advised if there was a FENCE between where you are working and the highway, even if the fence is right at the edge of the highway, then you don't need a permit.  So I erected a very temporary fence (some steel stakes and some tape) and did the work.

 

So if you do the same, drive a couple of steel stakes in to form a fence, replace your kerbstones on your path, and re surface your path, then remove your temporary fence.  Job done.

[jamiehamy]

I would tend to agree with ProDave - I think now you have to game this a bit. The reason for my suggestion came from a chap down the road from us who built a small hydro station - he needed to run his pipeline under the road and the Council stated he would need a full road closure with everything that entailed (single track road). His solution? he went up late on a summers evening and dug up the road with a large steel plate should an emergency vehicle happen to come along. A local neighbour went bananas, called the police - who turned out and determined there was no criminal activity and they wouldn't do anything. A few hours later into the night, the pipeline was in and road reinstated as per what he'd have to have done....

 

I wouldn't engage any further with the council whatever you do. If you work entirely on the pavement (!), what can they do? 

 

That said, when we made our driveway, we applied for a Road opening permit - digger driver had the right qualification - and they issued it with no questions or followup. BUt you're in Edinburgh....!

[AliG]

Good points guys. The issue is that we probably can’t put in the kerbstones without cutting into the road.

 

However, they may be thinking of the normal situation where the pavement is adopted. I guess I might go back and argue I won’t touch the road. Who’s to know. 

[PeterW]

We have a private road with a byway along it - it’s not surfaced but last year out of the blue the council came along and surfaced it with 10-dust at about 30mm thick. Then sent everyone a letter saying they weren’t allowed to drive on it as no vehicles on s byway etc ... had to point out that they had surfaced a private road without the authority of the owners, and furthermore we had a right of way over their byway... lovely council highways officer then started to back down when I said they had created a liability when they had resurfaced the road, and “our road” was still intact below their surface ... so they had created the issue ..!

 

They then said that I would need a road closure notice to dig a hole in the road, and I had to point out that a byway legally 2m, and the whole road is 7.3m... I want my hole at 3m, so plenty of space ..!

 

The final straw was when they sent me the highways reinstatement guide telling me I had to ensure the top surface was a “ fully bound material “ etc - I highlighted it and returned it in the post with a photo of the pristine limestone they had installed asking why they had breached their own regulations ...not heard from them since ..!

[AliG]

I went back and read the email from the Council again.

 

It says they expect me to cut 300mm into the road to install the new kerb as that is their specification.

 

I think this is fundamentally wrong as I am not messing with a council owned kerb, it is my kerb. I don’t see why I can’t install it from one side.

 

I will speak to the builder then put this to them.

Edited February 27, 2019 by AliG

[ProDave]

Find some second hand kerbstones so they don't look shiny and new. Then fit them.  If there is ever any query, "no those are the old ones, I decided not to change them"