Redesigned for the millionth time!

[JTLondon]

Hi all,

 

Long-time reader, first time poster.

 

We are days away from submitting for planning permission to extension and refurbish our 1930s style semi just outside London.

 

It’s been years in the scheming to come up with the utilisation of space we think we wanted, watching any number of home shows on TV and trawling the internet for pictures and blogs.  We’ve obviously also been saving, and hope we have what would be 75% of the budget for the works (conceding much of the finish will be contingent on us finding / borrowing money 6 months from now).

 

We live on a corner plot, with plenty of space relative to neighbours.  It is a very mixed street with a combination of semi and detached houses, of all sorts of designs.  To cut a long story short, I’m getting mild anxiety now I am submitting for planning, appreciating that I am finally committing to structural elements.  If anyone has the time and curiosity, it would be much appreciated to assess the efficiency and perceived experience this new layout would bring.

 

In case it is relevant:

-          We are a family of 4 (late 30yr old parents, 4yr old + 6 mth old), and hope the design strikes the balance of enjoyable for everyone now, and as we grow up together. 

-          The rear glazed wall is north facing. 

-          Currently the driveway enters  from the south off a busy road, part of the plan is to close up that driveway, apply to have the curve dropped in the cul-de-sac around the corner, and then fence off a safer front garden area which the children can enjoy as much as the back garden.  It will also mean we don’t be sideswiped by traffic as we use our drive (happened twice!) and the house will effectively look like a detached house when approaching from the east rather than the south (provisionally spoke with traffic team at the council and they thought in theory this adjusted entrance location would be ok but would need submitting to be assessed in more detail, and would probably require the original be blocked, so not in-and-out option).

-          We plan to use the garage mainly for storage for our vast amount of sporting equipment and as an exercise area, we don’t know how close to the land boundary we can reasonably go, it feels like leaving any is waste.

-          We like the idea of French Doors from the study and the snug to access the front garden, it seems a detached house in the street has this feature but would be different to our immediate neighbours, and any other semi detached.

-          Houses identical to ours in the street have only gone as far as single story side and rear extensions, or double story rear.  So ours would represent the most bold renovation for our small set of houses, but we also have far more scope given we have the corner plot.

-          We appreciate that for the UK, the ensuite is large, however we plan a large shower and 3 person sauna in there, expecting it will be our lifestyle to retreat to there when the kids are asleep to be our own spa…a bit over the top, but will get us away from the TV and help us focus more each other, and on body maintenance and our yoga work.

-          We have a set of in-laws up to stay normally 3-4 weeks per year, so the 4th bedroom will be used.

-          We nicknamed the area in the centre of the house “the-cave” as it is so unbearably dark, that explains the skylight + void we have at the moment, and think it would look cool (we definitely have a tight budget, but still would like features that feel special / unique / give us joy).

-          We are open to the design of the glazing at the back of the house, currently we have 4m sliding doors (which I guess only one leaf would move) with additional fixed pane sections, assuming there is more choice of supplier and more reasonable costs for purchase and fitting for a 4m set, but if a higher end look can be achieved within our budget we would adjust to say 6m sliding doors etc. (question: could we change the glazing setup after planning without further permission required i.e. different width sliding doors?)

-          We’ve tried to minimize the requirement for steels by keeping existing loadbearing walls where possible, but there still seem like plenty will be required downstairs.

-          We currently have a carport and think it is the best thing since sliced bread throughout the year, so want to have one again, but now it is much closer to the street entrance (as that is now to the east of the house) and would perhaps want taller which may seem overpowering (unless it is transparent)…I guess it needs to be part of the PP since it is attached to the garage which in turn is attached to the house?  Just realised the carport hasn't been drawn on the "FINAL SIDE" view, but you get an idea of the envisaged scale from the "FINAL DOWNSTAIRS", it would have to be cantilevered of sort to not have a post on the south easterly corner, as that would be slap bang in the middle of the drive access.

-          Really unsure of the ideal garage roof design, we want as much height inside as possible, but don't want the neighbours to object.  We also have an eye on installing solar in the future, so imagine having some flat roof sections might be good for that purpose?

-          We have a very good relationship with our adjoined neighbours (probably until the JCB turns up!), but it has been frosty occasionally with those behind us.

 

I would love to get into the planned finishes, but just should probably limit it to the things relevant to determining the structural elements of the house for now.

 

Beyond the design, I’m obviously looking into the high cost items (glazing / flooring / accommodation during refurb) and have read many articles on this site, but if anyone, in response to my drawings, feels there is anything I should pay particular focus to, I would be super thankful for your input.

 

Regards

James

[bassanclan]

Have you got a photo of the existing house?

I'm not sure there is much kerb appeal with the side on entrance favoured in those 30s-50s builds and I'm not convinced you are actually improving things

[Russell griffiths]

Coming in at a tangent, have you had this priced by some builders

you may find it to be cost prohibitive, and for the money you could move up to one of the detached ones in the street. 

I used to live in nw London and I now you could easily spend a lot of money getting that how you want it. 

[Mr Punter]

I agree with @Russell griffiths. You are proposing to turn a 3 bed semi into a 4 bed semi near a busy road. This may add, say, 100k to the end value. Have a good look at Rightmove and see if you could find a 3 bed detached in the area that has potential.

 

I had a quick look at Wembley. 3 bed semis are £500-600, 4 bed semis £600-700, 3 bed detached £680-800, 4 bed detached £700-900.

[lizzie]

Maybe OP likes his location and doesn't mind spending more than finished product will be worth...........how many of us have done that LOL

[AliG]

Before commenting on the plans etc, is there a building line on the street to the east?

 

If the current side of your house is in line with the front of the houses round the corner and you intend to build dramatically in front of these houses you could have planning issues.

 

Generally corner plots have more space but are considered more sensitive from a planning perspective as they are very noticeable.

[JTLondon]

Thank you all for your comments so far, it's certainly plenty to think about. We like the road, the area, the schools, the church, and family orientated approach of the area.  We will out of curiosity see what is available detached around here but I suspect we will be priced out of a nice road.

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by jack
Addresses removed

[JTLondon]

[Ferdinand]

I think that is a well-considered, and considerate for your neighbours, scheme. Thank you for the comprehensive info.

 

But (as Michel Roux says when reviewing Coq au Squid Ink...)

 

- It looks like a complex build with a stonking budget. An extra 1200 sqft ish plus a huge garage and some well-chosen luxurie; all in  240k-270k give or take at a guestimate? I would get some ballpark estimates before doing planning, as once you start you are spending money and have a timescale, and you need to know where you expect to be before mounting the helter-skelter. If there is insufficient cash to lubricate the ride all the way you feel the splinters.

 

- I have not looked at the internal layout in detail, but yes to all doubles.  

 

- I think you may get concerns about “massing”. That may mitigate towards a lowish profile roof on the garage. Perhaps box section corrugated would do it and also save 6-7k or so over th3 proposed.

 

- I think that your high hedge is crucial in making the appearance more acceptable to the street, and would perhaps supply street views more prominently than elevations for the planners and when showing to neighbours; they will only see the side above 3m. Offer a Planning Condition to retain it if necessary. Or argue for a 2m fence or wall based on the current high privacy barrier.

 

- I am not a fan of such complex roofs, with multi tiers, as it emphasises the piled-up style of London surburban housing - But London planners seem to like them. Personally I would prefer the side roof to be full height, but that would need a more articulated wall design on the side.

 

- I think I would have the garage towards the front not the back, as that would move the driveway more from the corner, and make the ‘parking spaces’ part of a perceived enlarged back garden. But there may be an 8mpact on your rear “glass wall” window.

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Ferdinand

[AliG]

Re my earlier corner plot issues, you are probably OK as the two storey element is in line with the building line and the garage which is outside this is single storey. Sounds like the neighbour behind will probably object to this though.

 

Before reading this, looking at other comments and my comments below I do wonder if it is worth spending the money on this house. My main concerns is that the back of the house faces north and many of your light issues will be very difficult to fix.

 

1. Garage/carport/driveway

 

It is difficult to get a car into a garage at right angles to the driveway, you could easily get one in at an angle, but not two. It may be that you can swing in from the left hand side of the driveway but it will be awkward. You cannot move the garage back and I doubt that you can move the driveway forward due to proximity to the corner. How do you propose holding up the corner of the carport, it will be right in front of the driveway?

 

Also, as the carport is drawn, would you drive forwards into it and then back out onto the street? 

 

An idea may be a single garage and a carport net to it. I am guessing that you use the carport all the time at the moment and the garage rarely. With the carport across the front of the garage it will be awkward to use the garage also. Further I would consider a single flat roof for the whole garage/carport area. It would seem a shame to build something new and have a mismatched flat roofed carport stuck onto the front of it.

 

2. Windows

 

I am not sure that the patio doors on the study and snug will sit well relative to the house next door. It will also seriously eat into the wall space for furniture in the study.

 

The doors off the back of the kitchen are fine if you use them. The positioning facing north is not ideal. I am sure losing the small pillar wold not be an issue. Again 6m doors are only worthwhile if you plan to use them.

 

It his always nice to have a window on the stairs/upstairs hall, but I think the window you have in is overly large. You will be totally on display as it is quite close to the street.

 

A light tunnel may work better than that void and small skylight. Putting a little bit of the skylight on a pitched roof looks unduly difficult to build for the extra area.

 

I see why you want the big kitchen skylight and they are usually really nice, but it will be very shadowed by the house.

 

3. Buildability

 

That is a lot of steel you will need to support the outer upstairs walls. Looking at the pictures, I am guessing that you only have 2.4m downstairs ceiling height. The steels will be thick and there is a strong chance that they cannot be hidden in the ceiling. Thus you would end up with a patchwork of beams across the kitchen ceiling. There is also the expense. I think you should get a SE to look at it.

 

The roof is a mess. To be fair this seems to be considered entirely reasonable in the south east. Extra space is valuable and a patchwork of different roofs is acceptable to get more space. I am quite OCD about these things, so maybe others would disagree, but it seems too much to me.

 

You could make life a lot easier by not having that little 1m piece of kitchen sticking out. Is the plan to simply build a new piece of roof on the middle part of the house spanning over the existing roof on the west side and not actually do anything to the west roof, it is just disappearing underneath?

 

I am not sure that I like the aesthetic of the extension roof as the tiled area will be quite short. Why not just go flat as it doesn't look like a proper pitched roof anyway. It might be better to lower the middle roof rather than raise it so you only have two heights of roof. This would probably be cheaper also as it has no impact on the current west side roof.

 

You are constrained of course because you have to attach to next door's roof and this may just be a compromise that has to be made.

 

4. Layout

 

Less to say here.

 

Could you not squeeze in the utility room in the corner where the door between the kitchen and garage is. It could eat into the garage. At the moment the utility/WC has a precious south facing window. I also don't think the WC through the utility is a good idea, see my thread re not skimping on the WC.

 

I see what you mean about "the cave". I am not sure that you have fixed it. That central space is very far from windows and the skylight is small and 10 feet above the ceiling. I would be inclined to put the dining table there. OR open the area up to the hall and make it a dining hall, then build a wall separating he kitchen family room. That way you would have more of a proper hall separating the study and snug. Depends on if you want a dining room and like a hall.

 

Upstairs is pretty much fine. I would put a fitted wardrobe on the south side of beds 3 and 4.

 

The dressing room behind the bedroom is probably too narrow, I would move the bed forward a bit, there is plenty of room.

 

I like your bathroom and ensuite.