RenoNewb Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Hi Everyone Sorry, I am new - hope it's ok to dive right in with questions! I am pretty sure I'll be on this site ALOT over the next few years. So we have bought a house (period, 1898 & needs full renovation eeeek) with an unfinished 2 bedroomed detached Annexe. It's about 3-4 meters away from the back of the house, it has been built and has a roof on it, all windows and doors are in and all the steel beams are in place. Approx 10m by 5.8m. We got our first quote back to finish it off, as below. I would love some opinions on this quote. We are in North Yorkshire. *Set up site with WC facilities and skip. *Install new drains. *Bring new services in from existing house. Water, gas and electric. *Insulate and screed floors. *Build stud walls to create new layouts. *1st fix plumbing for new bathroom, boiler and radiators. *1st fix electrics and joinery. * Insulate all areas as necessary. * Plaster board and skim * 2nd fix joinery. New skirting, architrave and doors. * Install new kitchen. Kitchen supplied by client. * 2nd fix plumbing. All sanitary ware supplied by client. *Supply and fit new Combi boiler. * Supply and fit 4 new radiators. * 2nd fix electrics. We have allowed for 1 consumer unit, 16 double sockets, 4 switchesand 18 LED spot lights. All detectors to be hard wired. *Supply and fit new uPVC fascia’s and guttering. * Make good to ground externally. * Clean down. * Remove all debris from site. £39, 660 + VAT £47, 592 Any thoughts on this would be great. Our plan is to move into this Annexe whilst we get the main house renovated, but really didn't think it would cost that much? Thank you for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 That's nearly £1000 per square metre to finish a shell. What are you expecting to pay? What skills do you have to do any of the work yourself? What is your timescale? Obvious savings, they don't need "site facilities" if you offer use of the WC in the main house etc Cleaning, rubbish disposal, landscaping etc can you do any of that yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenoNewb Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 Thanks ProDave for replying! Well, we don't have a huge amount of DIY skills but lots of enthusiasm! However we are time poor as we both work full time and have 2 small children with no family around so it's not ideal...however, like you say we can save on site facilities, cleaning & landscaping around the outside that's no problem. We have no issue putting in some hard work and learning some skills along the way. Honestly I'm not really sure what we were expecting to pay. We did a 28 msq single storey rear extension in our old house (in Surrey) which included knocking walls down, building stud walls and fitting windows & doors for 56k so I was just quite surprised at this quote and wondered if this is the level of quotes we should expect? We are new to the area and don't know anyone so it's hard to know Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 You might be able to reduce the cost a bit by taking away risk if you can. Anyone quoting to do refurbishment work on an old building is going to add in a fair bit of contingency to cover the things that they can't see but which might end up taking a lot more time to do. Good examples would be things like the foul drainage runs, in a house that old there's a good chance that there will be a mix of different bits and the contractor may well be building in a bit of risk contingency to deal with the worst they are likely to encounter. If there's anything you can do to survey what's there, ideally gathering as much evidence you can about the exact locations of things, and their condition, then you may be able to get a better price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennentslager Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Some pictures of the existing structure will help the good folks get a handle on what you need and what you might be able to save on. the more info the better is best??? and welcome to the forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenoNewb Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, Tennentslager said: Some pictures of the existing structure will help the good folks get a handle on what you need and what you might be able to save on. the more info the better is best??? and welcome to the forum Thank you...good idea! I don't have many of the actual Annexe, just this one looking from the back garden. It's on the right. Built in red brick. Building work stopped around 18 months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, RenoNewb said: Thank you...good idea! I don't have many of the actual Annexe, just this one looking from the back garden. It's on the right. Built in red brick. Building work stopped around 18 months ago. Welcome @RenoNewb We also really need an indication of what standard finishes you have specified (basic, normal, posh - eg for doors eggcrate, wood veneer, solid wood), and a sketch plan if you have one. Your quote does not seem to include a ventilation system, or floor finishes above the screed eg tiles. For the whole thing, fitting OK quality tiles (£10-£20 per sqm) throughout on your screed would add £2-2.5k-ish. My initial impression is that the quote is basically OK for a main contractor package which is that comprehensive, where you have given them the risk, and there is about 6-7k of work outside the annexe included, and they have to allow for things going wrong. I think you could salami slice perhaps 5-10%, but if you want to knock it down by say 25% you will need to take a more personal detailed interest and accept some of the risk back. Expect to spend 100-200 hours of your time on resourcing it in this case, and doing things like sourcing and rubbish disposal. Much of the saving would be in you ferreting out stuff less expensively that they just buy in as there is no incentive for them to work at saving a few £££ here and there in a fixed price. Obvs your other quotes will be key docs to compare. What are the odds that the next one is £57k ? Looks a great place to be. Ferdinand Edited February 11, 2019 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennentslager Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Lovely looking place that is... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, RenoNewb said: Couldn't resist - sorry. Our family has a thing about noticing them. ??? Edited February 11, 2019 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Welcome Quick question - what’s happening about building regulations ..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Welcome! I assume the main house has been lived in during the last 2 years? Just makes a difference to the VAT position if it hasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenoNewb Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 Ha yes unfortunately so! Thanks everyone, I will reply in more detail tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 You could possibly go for a non VAT registered trader then if you could get one. You'll need to pay the VAT on the materials clearly but the labour might be a bit cheaper. Have you ascertained the position with council tax if you make it a self contained annex with kitchen and bathroom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I think the trouble is that you are amortising various close to fixed costs across a very small building. Bringing in the services will cost the same whether it is 50 or 100square metres. A consumer unit and boiler will cost the same. A kitchen and bathroom may be slightly smaller but will cost the same. These will really boost the cost per sq metre. One thing to consider is do you need gas in the annex, work with gas piping, boilers etc is all regulated and extremely expensive. Why not just put in electric radiators and an electric water heater. I would guess that this will save £3000ish. There are too many sockets and LED lights, each will cost around £60. 50sq metres is basically a 1 bedroom apartment and does not need so many fittings. Can you make it more open plan, this will save on stud work, woodwork fittings etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) Onw way to approach this is to alight on what you will do towards the refurbishment of the main house (eg learn how to do skirtings and doors, or fit kitchens, or stud walls and insulation), and use the annexe as a way of learning or improving those skills. That is one way to get a focused set of skills yourself. (It is fun learning digging and groundwork) That will save you a segment of costs. And when you have worked out your changes, ask your supplier what you can change to make it easier for him to reduce costs costs. Change your scheme to make it better value or simpler; don't beat him over the head with a swagger stick as that will make him skimp. F Edited February 12, 2019 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 What do you intend to do with the annex afterwards? If it’s for someone to live in permanently you will need to fit it out better than if it’s for occasional use or whatever. Something cheap and free standing, even second hand may suffice as a kitchen if you are only living there whilst you are renovating the main house. You can then replace that later when finances allow. You’ll want to save your cash for work on the main house surely unless the annex is intended to be a source of income to help fund the renovations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 24 minutes ago, newhome said: What do you intend to do with the annex afterwards? If it’s for someone to live in permanently you will need to fit it out better than if it’s for occasional use or whatever. Something cheap and free standing, even second hand may suffice as a kitchen if you are only living there whilst you are renovating the main house. You can then replace that later when finances allow. You’ll want to save your cash for work on the main house surely unless the annex is intended to be a source of income to help fund the renovations. Good qu. Secondhand kitchens are available for peanuts off ebay, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Ikea do a full mini kitchen for about £450 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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