Automation Planning

[Gooman]

There's also these 1/2/3 gang dimmers in black or white, based on Tuya components so should be OTA flashable with Tasmota (though not tried myself). Looks like it requires neutral.

 

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/3-Gang-Black-Wifi-Smart-Switch_60835882431.html?spm=a2700.7724857.normalList.49.4f072620uxEaVH

[joth]

There is a small market in reselling devices with Tasmota pre-installed. e.g. https://amazon.co.uk/s?k=Tasmota (similar to modems with Tomato firmware) not sure what the markup is on those, and AFAICT AliExpress isn't doing it yet.

 

Other possible downsides with this approach - assuming you can fettle it to reliable state, I guess one thing is you need to have a means revert the house to "normal" switches if planning to resell the house anytime soon.  Also.... if you're building the house yourself it's probably fine, but if working with architect or full services contractor to build you'll be forever trying to explain and re-explain the requirements for these systems (vs saying "just put some lights in please")  ?

 

[Gooman]

7 minutes ago, joth said:

There is a small market in reselling devices with Tasmota pre-installed. e.g. https://amazon.co.uk/s?k=Tasmota (similar to modems with Tomato firmware) not sure what the markup is on those, and AFAICT AliExpress isn't doing it yet.

 

Other possible downsides with this approach - assuming you can fettle it to reliable state, I guess one thing is you need to have a means revert the house to "normal" switches if planning to resell the house anytime soon.  Also.... if you're building the house yourself it's probably fine, but if working with architect or full services contractor to build you'll be forever trying to explain and re-explain the requirements for these systems (vs saying "just put some lights in please")  ?

 

 

That's why I prefer to use a built-in light switch for main lights (like Lightwave or the Sonoff T1) - they're easily removable and replaceable with a regular dimmer. Then just use the Koogeek plug-ins for any plug-in devices.

[puntloos]

2 minutes ago, joth said:

There is a small market in reselling devices with Tasmota pre-installed. e.g. https://amazon.co.uk/s?k=Tasmota (similar to modems with Tomato firmware) not sure what the markup is on those, and AFAICT AliExpress isn't doing it yet.

 

Eh, it *seems* fairly straightforward - this guy seems to outline a process to upgrade sonoff to tasmota over the air. No wires needed....

Might just test this soonish.

 

2 minutes ago, joth said:

Other possible downsides with this approach - assuming you can fettle it to reliable state, I guess one thing is you need to have a means revert the house to "normal" switches if planning to resell the house anytime soon.  Also.... if you're building the house yourself it's probably fine, but if working with architect or full services contractor to build you'll be forever trying to explain and re-explain the requirements for these systems (vs saying "just put some lights in please")  ?

 

 

Yeah.. uh.. about that.

 

Indeed, I do intend to have the house be kinda-sorta be revertible to ye olde mode, but I don't intend to sell, so that eventuality ranks low-ish on the amount of time/effort i want to put into that. (that said, I will likely ask to put in covered wall switch boxes and running the room power through.. or perhaps some similar approach (maybe even squeeze the sonoffs into said socket, so you can replace them (although I think having a battery of sonoff style room switches centrally, next to the wifi AP, in some central wiring closet appeals more..)

[MJNewton]

8 hours ago, Gooman said:

 

I know what you mean, but all the other potential solutions I could find at the time fell well behind in terms of aesthetics.

 

If you're happy with needing a neutral line, and you're OK with white glass finish, there's now a lot more options. ITEAD themselves have the Sonoff T1 line (https://www.itead.cc/smart-home/sonoff-t1.html), plus there's others available on Amazon (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07FMJHQFF).

 

My concern has never really been the aesthetics - indeed I think the touch panel switches look great. My issue is usability - there is a lot to be said for a simple row of dimmer knobs that you can easily feel for around the door frame and instantly set to the light level you desire without a second thought. Having to actually look at the lightswitch (I am assuming they are at least backlit so you can see them inside a dark room?) and touch (just) the right spot doesn't appeal much, and if I'd have to stand and hold this pressed finger whilst the light levels cycle through a dimming pattern until the approximate level desired was reached I think that'd be out of the question. They seem like a case of form over function (if my assumptions are correct)?

Edited August 1, 2019 by MJNewton

[puntloos]

3 hours ago, MJNewton said:

 

My concern has never really been the aesthetics - indeed I think the touch panel switches look great. My issue is usability - there is a lot to be said for simple row of dimmer knobs that you can easily feel for around the door frame and instantly set to the light level you desire without a second thought. Having to actually look at the lightswitch (I am assuming they are at least backlit so you can see them inside a dark room?) and touch (just) the right spot doesn't appeal much, and if I'd have to stand and hold this pressed finger whilst the light levels cycle through a dimming pattern until the approximate desired was reached I think that'd be out of the question. They feel like a case of form over function (if my assumptions are correct)?

My sense is the same here, these 'cheap chinese' type of things are often made as economical as possible - fair enough, but indeed I would prefer not to skimp on the actual controls, but I don't care if the nuts and bolts are plasticy.

 

Has anyone found a decent set of controls that feel "fancy"? Indeed dimmers, switches etc? 

[Gooman]

4 hours ago, puntloos said:

 

Eh, it *seems* fairly straightforward - this guy seems to outline a process to upgrade sonoff to tasmota over the air. No wires needed....

Might just test this soonish.

 

That hasn't worked for some time - Itead made some security changes that prevented it. See the notes at https://github.com/mirko/SonOTA

 

It's only Tuya-based devices that can be flashed to Tasmota OTA at the moment, though it also looks like that window may close soon.

 

[puntloos]

1 hour ago, Gooman said:

 

That hasn't worked for some time - Itead made some security changes that prevented it. See the notes at https://github.com/mirko/SonOTA

 

It's only Tuya-based devices that can be flashed to Tasmota OTA at the moment, though it also looks like that window may close soon.

 

Yeah I noticed that - it didn't work. At least it didn't ruin my device either ?

 

 

[puntloos]

2 hours ago, puntloos said:

My sense is the same here, these 'cheap chinese' type of things are often made as economical as possible - fair enough, but indeed I would prefer not to skimp on the actual controls, but I don't care if the nuts and bolts are plasticy.

 

Has anyone found a decent set of controls that feel "fancy"? Indeed dimmers, switches etc? 

One followup question (err.. to myself..) in general:

 

Many 'ecosystems' (hue, tradfri etc) are dual-mode:

- Control your stuff over the internet, often through the manufacturer's internet portal/API that connects everything

- Direct wireless communications. E.g. the tradfri dimmer will pair, then work with devices without any internet needed.

 

Can this be replicated with tasmota/tuya/whatnot? If I can, I'd love my (fancy) wall switches to always work, even when the internet is down.

 

Am I correct in understanding that Zigbee will not always speak to Zigbee e.g. I hear that Hue hub rejects Tradfri bulbs, or is this not a 'political' thing and people are ironing out these problems?

[Gooman]

8 hours ago, puntloos said:

One followup question (err.. to myself..) in general:

 

Many 'ecosystems' (hue, tradfri etc) are dual-mode:

- Control your stuff over the internet, often through the manufacturer's internet portal/API that connects everything

- Direct wireless communications. E.g. the tradfri dimmer will pair, then work with devices without any internet needed.

 

Can this be replicated with tasmota/tuya/whatnot? If I can, I'd love my (fancy) wall switches to always work, even when the internet is down.

 

Am I correct in understanding that Zigbee will not always speak to Zigbee e.g. I hear that Hue hub rejects Tradfri bulbs, or is this not a 'political' thing and people are ironing out these problems?

 

Tasmota doesn't require Internet connection at all. It doesn't "phone home" to any remote server, unless you configure it that way.

 

You can control it via each device's own built-in web page, via the Yeti Android app, or via a Home Automation server.

 

A Home Automation server could be something running locally on the same LAN, such as OpenHAB or HomeAssistant, or a Cloud-based service like Samsung SmartThings. Up to you.

 

Sonoff devices and others (like Koogeek) also have a physical switch on the device that doesn't even need local WiFi. Same for the LightwaveRF dimmers - they work even without an RF gateway.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Gooman