Feedback on workshop plans

[kaygoo]

Whilst I muse over my self build plans, in the short term I need to make a usable workshop space for my stained glass business.  The shed already has electricity and water, so this is a good start.

 

The plan is to create a structure within the 30x30' agricultural shed we already have, taking up about half of the floor space, with insulated walls and ceiling, some form of insulation between my feet and the concrete base of the shed and a light well going up to one of the skylights. I will also need ventilation and would prefer to be able to see out and also prop glass up directly against natural light source, so I plan to put a window or two along the back wall.

 

It's a working space so it doesn't need to look pretty.

 

I am thinking of:

- creating a stud wall, faced internally with OSB board and insulated with insulation board between the OSB and the shed space.   

- creating a basic ceiling space using OSB board supported by 4.8m lengths of 47x150mm untreated timber carcassing spaced at roughly 1m each, with some form of insulation above

 

I am wary of rolled insulation as I don't want to encourage pests to nest but, obviously, this is the cheaper option, so if anyone has any advice it would be great to hear it.

I am trying to keep costs down so, with regards the floor, I was wondering if there is an alternative to creating an actual floor (putting down some form of matting for example) which is a cost effective way of reducing heat loss via the concrete pad and making it more bearable to stand on for hours on end.

 

I would appreciate thoughts on this plan or suggestions of alternatives, bearing in mind that it needs to be as cost effective as possible.

Thanks

 

 

[Onoff]

Got / can you get any pallets? 

 

 

 

 

[Russell griffiths]

Do you have a picture ?

what sort of budget ?

is this a hobby or a business ?

i have had a number of shed within shed things ranging from heaven to be in to my current one that I cringe at the thought of going down to it. 

Give us a bit more of a feel for what you need and I will chuck in my pennies worth. 

Russ. 

[kaygoo]

Apologies - I thought I had set the posts to notify me of replies, but it's not working...

Pics below - the external shot shows the front (chicken for scale) and it's pretty much square.  The internal shot shows the makeshift set up I have in the corner at the moment which isn't really workable long term - 5 degrees in there are the moment and difficult to protect.

 

I have a friend who did something similar without windows for about £3k but I want to check if there is a smarter way of doing it - cheaper and / or using more efficient materials.

 

It's a business, though I had to move out of my mainland studio to make the move over here and take on full time work meantime working on the glass in the evenings and weekends in the makeshift studio - the plan is to go back to part time work and part time glass once I have the studio sorted.

 

I've built loads of things with pallets before - I don't mind what this looks like but it needs to be draught-proof and insulated and I don't want to spend hours taking pallets apart to put them back together again in a new arrangement.  Open to suggestions of how to do this with pallets though.  Some available on the island but consistent dimensions cannot be guaranteed.

 

Thanks

[Onoff]

Got the pallets above first. A few were 10' long. Concrete base was sized to suit the pallets. Outside is wrapped in a breathable membrane. No insulation in this one though we did discuss putting a membrane in the inside too then filling with eps beads.

[Onoff]

Essential to build!

 

 

 

[kaygoo]

Much easier than a crow bar!

[Onoff]

15 minutes ago, kaygoo said:

Much easier than a crow bar!

 

Dog rough sketch of the one I made in the video:

 

[kaygoo]

42 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Dog rough sketch of the one I made in the video:

 

 

 Great stuff.  Thanks.

[Onoff]

20 minutes ago, kaygoo said:

 Great stuff.  Thanks.

 

If you make one then consider what type of pallet you'll mostly be stripping and adjust to suit so it slips over the main bearers. My one is a bit restricted to the circa 2"  wide bearers though you can unbolt the angles and have them facing outward. Original thread on it here:

 

tripping 

[PeterW]

Really wouldn’t bother with the hassle of pallets unless you have unlimited time and unlimited pallets. They can be useful for making a raised floor if you have enough of the same ones, but will still need 3x2 to keep them square. 

 

I’d do a simple structure of 3x2 clad with OSB on the inside then stack around with straw bales - not much will like to live in those tbh as they are too dense. 6x2 as ceiling joists resting on the top walls will give you plenty of strength. 

 

If you need a “window” then create a gap in the bales and bridge it with a couple of scaffold boards as a lintel - as long as it’s not got a full bale over the boards it should be fine. 

 

No need to trim the ends - just offset the stacking and pin them together with lengths of broom handle. 

 

Ceiling insulation would be best with something like cheap fiberglass or Rockwool or  whatever your local BM has a few rolls of. 

[Russell griffiths]

If your somewhere remote it would probably pay to use materials that are available locally 

no point specifying something you can’t buy

can you find some second hand double glazed windows and a door

no point making a horrible environment just because it was cheap, 

window , door, pile of 4x2 , pallet of plywood, lots of rock wool insulation, electrics

should be no problem for £3000 

 

[Onoff]

I amazed at just how sturdy the nephew's pallet shed is tbh. Flew up too. Far better than the carp ones out of 2"x1". Some real solidity about it. 

 

If it was me I'd have gone that bit further and made lattice roof trusses o/of pallets.

[Miek]

I have a shed very similar to yours with anti condensation box profile roofing sheets. I still get condensation on the roof lights which drips internally on a frosty morning. So any internal ceiling needs to be able cope with this to some extent. Do you have this issue in the winter? 

 

If you heat the internal space then I would expect the condensation to get a fair bit worse on a cold morning as the warm humid air rises to the cold roof. So maybe consider an internal vapour barrier to help with this? 

 

I'd be inclined to Insulate the ceiling with PIR or something non absorbant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kaygoo]

On 24/12/2018 at 16:06, Miek said:

I have a shed very similar to yours with anti condensation box profile roofing sheets. I still get condensation on the roof lights which drips internally on a frosty morning. So any internal ceiling needs to be able cope with this to some extent. Do you have this issue in the winter? 

 

If you heat the internal space then I would expect the condensation to get a fair bit worse on a cold morning as the warm humid air rises to the cold roof. So maybe consider an internal vapour barrier to help with this? 

 

I'd be inclined to Insulate the ceiling with PIR or something non absorbant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that. We're not currently heating the space though the south wall kicks out a fair heat on a sunny day. Not aware of any condensation problems but it can feel a little more damp in there when the door hasn't been open for a day or so. I will keep an eye out and consider if a barrier is required. 

[Onoff]

If you've a south facing elevation I'd be considering a large, home made, solar hot air heater. 

 

Be warned there is a shed load of info on this US forum. The layout takes a bit of getting used to:

 

https://simplysolar.supporttopics.com/?forum=268123

[kaygoo]

On 30/12/2018 at 10:08, Onoff said:

If you've a south facing elevation I'd be considering a large, home made, solar hot air heater. 

 

Be warned there is a shed load of info on this US forum. The layout takes a bit of getting used to:

 

https://simplysolar.supporttopics.com/?forum=268123

 

Thanks but with good insulation and a kiln running it's likely that my heating requirement will be minimal. 

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, kaygoo said:

 

Thanks but with good insulation and a kiln running it's likely that my heating requirement will be minimal. 

 

Missed the bit about a kiln!

[Ferdinand]

2 hours ago, kaygoo said:

 

Thanks but with good insulation and a kiln running it's likely that my heating requirement will be minimal. 

 

I haven't weighed in on this one yet, but an alternative suggestion.

 

Consider a suitable Site Services or other type Portakabin, and just run it in on skates or fence posts as rollers, then jack up on hydraulic car jacks if you need and insert breezeblocks. These come pre-insulated and wired.

 

A further alternative is the back of a Luton type van or similar, either a normal van or a refrigerated van, which makes delivery easy.

 

I appreciate that these may not be available on your island, or the next one, but if they are it could save you a lot of work and possibly money. IF somebody has one they may be keen to get rid of it given the removal cost.

 

Ferdinand

Edited December 31, 2018 by Ferdinand

[kaygoo]

On 31/12/2018 at 17:04, Ferdinand said:

 

I haven't weighed in on this one yet, but an alternative suggestion.

 

Consider a suitable Site Services or other type Portakabin, and just run it in on skates or fence posts as rollers, then jack up on hydraulic car jacks if you need and insert breezeblocks. These come pre-insulated and wired.

 

A further alternative is the back of a Luton type van or similar, either a normal van or a refrigerated van, which makes delivery easy.

 

I appreciate that these may not be available on your island, or the next one, but if they are it could save you a lot of work and possibly money. IF somebody has one they may be keen to get rid of it given the removal cost.

 

Ferdinand

 

Thanks but I'm looking for something to fit in to / make the best use of the 30x15' space.  The back of a luton would be way too small and  can't see how I would manouver a big enough portacabin through the shed doors in one piece and position it so I can make the most effective use of space (for everything else which I need to use the shed for).  And that's before transport costs in excess of £1k (nothing available on island), getting it up the windy track at ours and still having to somehow fit external windows for natural light and ventilation.

 

Putting something like this outside isn't possible as we have already maxed out out 'moveable unit' quota with planning which is why I want to make use of the existing building which already has a concrete floor, services and a structure I can 'pin' the studio to.

Edited January 5, 2019 by kaygoo