Manifolds

[jack]

2 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

It's cold water so there aren't problems with scale and it means we use less salt and regenerating water.

 

We too had problems with scale in our toilet in the bungalow we knocked down to build the new house.

 

We're finally about to run out of salt from our first bulk buy. We've been through 29 twin packs of block salt since November 2016 (I'll admit that I've forgotten to replace the blocks a handful of times over that period - maybe a couple of months in total over three years). The cost was £120, so around £40 a year.

 

I can't imagine that toilet flushing took more than 20% of that volume, and it was probably more like 10%. Paying £4 to £8 a year to not have to use products and effort to keep limescale out of the bowl seems a bargain to me!

[Jeremy Harris]

I did a bulk buy, bought a whole pallet load of Harveys salt blocks for around half the list price for a single pack.  Great idea until you realise you need to find storage for them all, somewhere warm and dry!

[Gone West]

14 hours ago, billt said:

 

You can't have hard water then! Ours scales things just as well with cold water.

It's hard all right 320ppm. I'll have to check our cisterns to see how they've been affected since we moved in seven months ago.

[jack]

13 hours ago, JSHarris said:

I did a bulk buy, bought a whole pallet load of Harveys salt blocks for around half the list price for a single pack.  Great idea until you realise you need to find storage for them all, somewhere warm and dry!

 

30 packs took up more than enough room. How many years' worth did you end up with at your consumption rate?

 

There's currently a shortage - lots of places out of stock, and take a look at some of the pricing on ebay!

[Nickfromwales]

On 16/11/2018 at 16:29, PeterStarck said:

@Big Neil yes we used manifolds. As others have said easy to isolate individual circuits and no joins in pipes.

 

 

 

I've said it once, and I'll say it again.....

 

"Tis a thing of beauty". 

[Ed Davies]

1 hour ago, PeterStarck said:

It's hard all right 320ppm.

 

I understand the conventional expression is “well hard”. Particularly applicable to boreholes in chalk.

[Jeremy Harris]

43 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

I've said it once, and I'll say it again.....

 

"Tis a thing of beauty". 

 

 

It is indeed, quite outstanding, and far, far neater than any of my plumbing!

[Jeremy Harris]

1 hour ago, jack said:

 

30 packs took up more than enough room. How many years' worth did you end up with at your consumption rate?

 

There's currently a shortage - lots of places out of stock, and take a look at some of the pricing on ebay!

 

I haven't worked it out yet, but it was delivered a couple of years ago and we have hardly made a dent in the stack.  At a guess I'd say we have few years worth left, but next time I'm going to take the price hit and just order a half pallet load.

 

That eBay pricing is silly.  IIRC, a twin pack was around £7 if bought singly in one of the local DIY sheds, and buying a pallet load brought the price down to less than £3 per twin pack.  Seemed like a bargain at the time...

[Gone West]

Last month I bought ten packs from our local water softener supplier and it was £57.50 inc VAT and delivery.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

It is indeed, quite outstanding, and far, far neater than any of my plumbing!

Agreed. It has to go  

[newhome]

On 16/11/2018 at 16:29, PeterStarck said:

@Big Neil yes we used manifolds. As others have said easy to isolate individual circuits and no joins in pipes.

 

 

 

 

That’s not plumbing, it’s a design statement! Wow, so neat and precise. It deserves to be on display, not locked away!

 

[jack]

30 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

Last month I bought ten packs from our local water softener supplier and it was £57.50 inc VAT and delivery.

 

We use these guys. Limited delivery area, but presently they do 10 packs for £50 delivered (ordered Sunday night, delivered by their own van about 10 mins ago - same driver who delivered three years ago!) You can't order more than 10 packs at the moment due to the shortage. 

 

The salt shortage is apparently due to two of the main production facilities for this product having been offline for the last couple of months. They're hoping things will be back to normal by the new year.

[Jeremy Harris]

1 hour ago, jack said:

The salt shortage is apparently due to two of the main production facilities for this product having been offline for the last couple of months. They're hoping things will be back to normal by the new year.

 

As long as they're back on line within two or three years I think we'll be OK...?

[scottishjohn]

4 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

I've said it once, and I'll say it again.....

 

"Tis a thing of beauty". 

don,t get prettier than that

I see you have prv,s --your lucky --I complained about pressure dropping from 5bar i used to have and was told by water board "we only have to supply it to you at 2bar --so no need for prv

-he told me to remove it as it could reduce flow rate!!!

so new house will be having no small dia piping ,large dia supply to upstairs  onlythen  manifolded down before going to outlets up there

Edited November 20, 2018 by scottishjohn

[Jeremy Harris]

6 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

..... no need for prv-he told me to remove it as it could reduce flow rate!!!

 

5 bar is a bit on the high side - IIRC we have a couple of bits of kit that won't take a pressure that high, and are limited to a maximum of (I think) 4.5 bar.  No reason why a correctly sized PRedV should have any effect on flow rate, all they do is convert the excess inlet pressure into flow as the demand increases on the load side.

[scottishjohn]

7 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

5 bar is a bit on the high side - IIRC we have a couple of bits of kit that won't take a pressure that high, and are limited to a maximum of (I think) 4.5 bar.  No reason why a correctly sized PRedV should have any effect on flow rate, all they do is convert the excess inlet pressure into flow as the demand increases on the load side.

Ihad it regulated down to 3.5 --but then it dropped away ,so I complained-

I said that to him about the PRV ,but he maintained that with high flow rate it would cause a drop in pressure ,--which is why i,m going for a "ring main "--for want of a better word in large piping +and a buffer volume

hot system will be properly lagged 

Edited November 20, 2018 by scottishjohn

[newhome]

22 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

was told by water board "we only have to supply it to you at 2bar

 

Sounds like the same script BT follow when you complain about broadband speed not being as advertised ?

[scottishjohn]

7 minutes ago, newhome said:

 

Sounds like the same script BT follow when you complain about broadband speed not being as advertised ?

I know why --we are in the country and still lots of old victorian cast water mains and they are trying to make them last longer.

I fitted a water filter years ago due to rust in lines.

a lot has now been replaced but still some and its also due to height differencs of people on the line --so if you are down hill you will get more ,but at top hill like I am --they want to keep it to minimum so lower down it don,t stress the old pipes.

bean counters again--got to think about the dividends of all these politicans you know

scottish water have not been allowed to charge water rates or insist on fittng meters like in england --not for domestic anyway 

Edited November 20, 2018 by scottishjohn

[Jeremy Harris]

17 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

Ihad it regulated down to 3.5 --but then it dropped away ,so I complained-

I said that to him about the PRV ,but he maintained that with high flow rate it would cause a drop in pressure ,--which is why i,m going for a "ring main "--for want of a better word in large piping +and a buffer volume

hot system will be properly lagged 

 

If you have a wide variation in supply pressure, which is what your symptoms suggest, then fitting an accumulator and NRV will fix that, and combined with a downstream PRedV will give you a solid, constant supply pressure, irrespective of flow.

[scottishjohn]

4 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

If you have a wide variation in supply pressure, which is what your symptoms suggest, then fitting an accumulator and NRV will fix that, and combined with a downstream PRedV will give you a solid, constant supply pressure, irrespective of flow.

still won,t give me more than 2 bar --which is not the best garden hose in the world-yes i could fit anaccumlator -but hoping the larger volume in main lines will do the same -while i,m starting from scratch --accum can go onlater if needed.

It could be totally different where my new site is --will depend if i,m highest on the the line like I am now

time will tell

the pressure don,t fluctuate much --just a bit low

Edited November 20, 2018 by scottishjohn

[Jeremy Harris]

Just now, scottishjohn said:

still won,t give me more than 2 bar --which is not the best garden hose in the world-yes i could fit anaccumlator -but hoping the larger volume in main lines will do the same -while i,m starting from scratch --accum can go onlater if needed.

It could be totally different where my new site is --will depend if i,m highest on the the line like I am now

time will tell

 

 

If you're peaking at 5 bar, then the accumulator will charge to that peak pressure and hold it whilst the mains pressure drops for intervals from other users demanding water.  You can then regulate down with a PRedV and your problem is solved.  Adding bigger pipes in any configuration after a  pressure restriction point won't make any difference at all.

[scottishjohn]

Just now, JSHarris said:

 

 

If you're peaking at 5 bar, then the accumulator will charge to that peak pressure and hold it whilst the mains pressure drops for intervals from other users demanding water.  You can then regulate down with a PRedV and your problem is solved.  Adding bigger pipes in any configuration after a  pressure restriction point won't make any difference at all.

sorry maybe my explanation 

It used to be 5 abr --but gradually dropped over a few years and now its a constant  2 bar --which icomplaine about 

they say that all they have to give me ,when Isaid my solar thermal need 3.5 bar -he said "thats my problem "-- not thiers

If i need that then ishould fit a booster pump.

he even argued that my guages was wrong and his siad it was 2.5 bar 

Iasked when his was last calibrated and even offered to do it for him --he idn,t like that 

and when  ipointed out to him that i had 3 gauges in different parts of the system and they all read the same -and all dropped al ittle when taps were on 

he fell back on his statement --all we have to give is 2 bar measured on OUR gauge  and its static pressure.

  feekin jobsworth

[scottishjohn]

6 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

It's hard all right 320ppm. I'll have to check our cisterns to see how they've been affected since we moved in seven months ago.

thats at least one problem i have never suffered from -both here in  s/w scotland +manchester lovely soft water  that makes a decent cuppa

[Gone West]

3 hours ago, jack said:

 

We use these guys. Limited delivery area, but presently they do 10 packs for £50 delivered (ordered Sunday night, delivered by their own van about 10 mins ago - same driver who delivered three years ago!) You can't order more than 10 packs at the moment due to the shortage. 

 

Shame we're outside their delivery area.

[Jeremy Harris]

1 hour ago, scottishjohn said:

sorry maybe my explanation 

It used to be 5 abr --but gradually dropped over a few years and now its a constant  2 bar --which icomplaine about 

they say that all they have to give me ,when Isaid my solar thermal need 3.5 bar -he said "thats my problem "-- not thiers

If i need that then ishould fit a booster pump.

he even argued that my guages was wrong and his siad it was 2.5 bar 

Iasked when his was last calibrated and even offered to do it for him --he idn,t like that 

and when  ipointed out to him that i had 3 gauges in different parts of the system and they all read the same -and all dropped al ittle when taps were on 

he fell back on his statement --all we have to give is 2 bar measured on OUR gauge  and its static pressure.

  feekin jobsworth

 

 

Solar thermal isn't fed by mains water, though, it has to be pumped up with a pressurisation set filled with high temperature inhibitor/antifreeze.  I made a pump set to fill our UFH and ASHP circuit, as I was a cheapskate and didn't want to pay silly money for one:

 

 

IIRC this will happily pump up to around 5 bar, and is near-enough identical to the purpose made ones that are sold for filling and pressurising solar thermal systems.