Offgrid Renovation

[joe90]

What a lovely project and a superb location (can’t find a jealous emoji ) do keep us informed, there is sooo much good advise here.

[Onoff]

Looking forward to the snow pictures!

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

[...]

I probably shouldn't say this, but

[...]

 ... let me describe a commonly observed (by that I mean I have seen the following happen), local (West Lancashire)  approach to ecology.

 

Out of nowhere, trailer loads of pig manure have been deposited in strategic places , roof spaces have been fumigated , fires left smouldering for weeks.

The following year, an application for Planning Permission is received, surveys done: bats, GCNs, badgers and other delicate flora and fauna are found to be curiously absent.

 

Motivation?

In the case of GCNs - if my case is any guide - £6000  and a year's delay saved. Similar numbers for bats, and as for badgers - I'm still too upset by my experience of the financially motivated destruction to detail it further.

[Thedreamer]

Nice photos and welcome to the forum.  Looking forward to seeing how this project progresses, please keep a blog!

[Ferdinand]

9 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

 ... let me describe a commonly observed (by that I mean I have seen the following happen), local (West Lancashire)  approach to ecology.

 

Out of nowhere, trailer loads of pig manure have been deposited in strategic places , roof spaces have been fumigated , fires left smouldering for weeks.

The following year, an application for Planning Permission is received, surveys done: bats, GCNs, badgers and other delicate flora and fauna are found to be curiously absent.

 

Motivation?

In the case of GCNs - if my case is any guide - £6000  and a year's delay saved. Similar numbers for bats, and as for badgers - I'm still too upset by my experience of the financially motivated destruction to detail it further.

 

It is a good question, and we have often discussed it on BH.

 

I would be perfectly happy with the approach taken to the stonework at our previous address since they knew exactly what they were doing , and the work was of a superb quality and completely in keeping - but perhaps one to discuss at another time on a different thread.

 

I stand by my opinion and my comment above (which was not intended to refer to wildlife), so I have edited out the conditional on that one.

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Ferdinand

[lizzie]

@Rendall nice building lovely setting so many of these still scattered around Wales (and probably Scotland).  Its a big job but hopefully worthwhile. Presumably no listing on it.

[Rendall]

4 hours ago, lizzie said:

@Rendall nice building lovely setting so many of these still scattered around Wales (and probably Scotland).  Its a big job but hopefully worthwhile. Presumably no listing on it.

 

Grade 2

[lizzie]

5 minutes ago, Rendall said:

 

Grade 2

Ah expensive then.......

[Rendall]

5 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

 ... let me describe a commonly observed (by that I mean I have seen the following happen), local (West Lancashire)  approach to ecology.

 

Out of nowhere, trailer loads of pig manure have been deposited in strategic places , roof spaces have been fumigated , fires left smouldering for weeks.

The following year, an application for Planning Permission is received, surveys done: bats, GCNs, badgers and other delicate flora and fauna are found to be curiously absent.

 

Motivation?

In the case of GCNs - if my case is any guide - £6000  and a year's delay saved. Similar numbers for bats, and as for badgers - I'm still too upset by my experience of the financially motivated destruction to detail it further.

 

We'll be very sensitive to the ecological aspects on this - it's something close to my heart and I'd want to know we're putting the wider land and landscape into a more sustainable and connected condition than it is now. In my view climate change and ecological breakdown are something future generations will judge ours on.

[Ferdinand]

17 hours ago, Rendall said:

 

We'll be very sensitive to the ecological aspects on this - it's something close to my heart and I'd want to know we're putting the wider land and landscape into a more sustainable and connected condition than it is now. In my view climate change and ecological breakdown are something future generations will judge ours on.

 

I need to come back on this, @Rendall.

 

I am not talking about gross criminality; I am talking about managing the inconsistency, the capriciousness, the self-contradictions, and the waste which are part and parcel of our regulatory systems. And the need to be ready for this in case something goes wrong with regulation on your project; you are dealing with a Listed Building and the consequences of things going wrong can be high, in both time and money.

 

Here we are already clear that you are dealing with at least 3 lots of regulators - the Batmen, the Listed Building Men, and probably the Tree Men. You have to choreograph what they say into a dwelling that is attractive and affordable for the next 25 years (say), even when there will be differences between the things they way and they may contradict. My favourite analogy for Planning is Poker with a table stake of thousands, and I like Kenny Rogers "The Gambler" for our options on each issue: corny, but food for thought.

 

Tree Man A may contradict Tree Man B, for BCO (Buildings Conservation Officer) 1 may contradict BCO 2 and BCO 3, but once a decision is made they will probably all stand by it out of solidarity. There are very wide areas of leeway within the bounds of professional competence, and much imo is governed by fashion at the time the partcular person was trained, and the flexibility they display may well be linked with the level of experience. Though there are also factors of some places being old fashioned in their practice, just as a Palladian Villa in the Peak District may be 50 or 100 years later than one in Brighton due to slow spread of the latest architectural fad.

 

eg The last time I had a proper assessment of a TPO tree done, the Wise Owl Treeman listed the names of the local Tree Officers, and was able to tell me what each one would probably let me do, and which would make me use metaphorical nail scissors. The regulation is not consistent.

 

 However, there is considerable leeway in most of these regulations eg where the line is on a listed building between "maintenance" and "repair", and whether you need to employ an architect to do a Listed Buildings Consent application (no fee but one day of an architect costs money, especially if you end up doing 10 of them over 5 years). This piece in Building Conservation explores some of the grey areas.

 

eg Do you need to apply for permission to replace the original door handle on your back door to improve security? What about the door itself? What about painting the doorframe? You will get different views and suggestions.

 

eg When you apply for PP, a Tree Officer is likely to appear out of the sky, and it will be a matter of opinion whether you get nothing or a Woodland TPO on the whole shebang, If you get the latter, what would happen to your plans to grow your own firewood if you have any?

(It is often advised here to decide what you want to do with your trees and do it before breaking cover with the Council).#

 

I also think that the Bat System in particular is riddled with conflicts of interests - the people who are the key advisers on the rules also make their living from training Batmen - and it all works to increase the overhead on you. There are plenty of horror stories, but in the eyes of the Batmen you lose.

 

I have quoted examples which may or may not apply, but I'll stop there anyway.  I love listed buildings and trees, but in these days of kneejerk-bureaucracy and tick-box warriors who shelter in the lee of regulations, they can make life a hell of a lot more complicated (and slower). One thing you need is a wise owl who knows the area and how they all operate, to be a sounding board and adviser.

 

The point is to make sure that you have independent knowledge as to how it might go, and what rights they have actually got - which may be exaggerated - and how this relates to what you want to do, and how you can best achieve your aims whilst developing your project appropriately.

 

(One thing I would be looking at is eg where is the curtilege of your listed building (or where you want to draw the line), and how that may affect you and your plans.)

 

Rgds

 

Ferdinand

Edited October 30, 2018 by Ferdinand

[lizzie]

@RendallI have to say having had a couple of listed buildings I agree wholeheartedly with @Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

@Rendall

 

I should add that whilst there are disagreement here, it is to help you think about different viewpoints so as better to inform the synthesis you create, and help your project be better. 

 

Ask a question of 3 people on Buildhub, and you will get between 8 and 27 opinions.

 

You'll be fine.

 

F

Edited October 30, 2018 by Ferdinand

[Rendall]

Thanks @Ferdinand. Yes its all a very subjective area, but one of the aspects in all of this I'm more comfortable with (or at least have my eyes open on) as my day job is in conservation too and involves responsibility for a range of Grade1 buildings, SSSIs, SPAs, SACs and the like. It doesn't make it any easier to navigate the vaguaries of what different people's perspectives or interpretations are on aspects of regulations, but I've been around enough conversations of this ilk that I hope if needed I'll be able to navigate through to agree the parameters for some agreed principles and approaches. Another advantage of the day job is that we'll probably already be/or have been working with some of the various officers on other work in the area which will help give us a heads up on their likely viewpoints and stances.

 

Re your earlier note, yes, on skills such at the tree management, walling, I'll be picking these up, and we've got a good generalist to hand. Current plan is a blitz, and designing for a good 25 years plus. Skirt insulation is a good point which I'd not considered. I'll post on the energy aspects separately on here in the topic area as this is a multi-faceted element. Current design is solar/battery combo to give around 5000kwh per annum with a generator back up, and then a gas fired rayburn with backboiler for DHW & CH. There is however potential for a pico hydro but whilst the year round Kw generation on this would be fab, unless I can reduce the capital cost of the install, the initial calcs suggest it's not as good an option (and this would be a whole other area of NRW licences to apply for). I want to model this some more though.

[Triassic]

It might be worth reading this blog, it’s written by a guy who lives completely off grid, he has all the kit you’ll need for an off grid life, he describes it all in detail, the sort of detail you’ll need.

 

https://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/about/

[Ferdinand]

11 hours ago, Rendall said:

Thanks @Ferdinand. Yes its all a very subjective area, but one of the aspects in all of this I'm more comfortable with (or at least have my eyes open on) as my day job is in conservation too and involves responsibility for a range of Grade1 buildings, SSSIs, SPAs, SACs and the like. It doesn't make it any easier to navigate the vaguaries of what different people's perspectives or interpretations are on aspects of regulations, but I've been around enough conversations of this ilk that I hope if needed I'll be able to navigate through to agree the parameters for some agreed principles and approaches. Another advantage of the day job is that we'll probably already be/or have been working with some of the various officers on other work in the area which will help give us a heads up on their likely viewpoints and stances.

 

Re your earlier note, yes, on skills such at the tree management, walling, I'll be picking these up, and we've got a good generalist to hand. Current plan is a blitz, and designing for a good 25 years plus. Skirt insulation is a good point which I'd not considered. I'll post on the energy aspects separately on here in the topic area as this is a multi-faceted element. Current design is solar/battery combo to give around 5000kwh per annum with a generator back up, and then a gas fired rayburn with backboiler for DHW & CH. There is however potential for a pico hydro but whilst the year round Kw generation on this would be fab, unless I can reduce the capital cost of the install, the initial calcs suggest it's not as good an option (and this would be a whole other area of NRW licences to apply for). I want to model this some more though.

 

Good stuff that you already have some exposure; it can be a bolt from the blue if you do not. I'll leave energy comments for the new thread.

 

It will be interesting to hear of your loo but no-longer-a-cesspit strategy. We ended up with an Aquatron, but there are threads about all of that. eg (you may have found)

 

 

 

The first thing that they did at ours was to dig 18" down in a trench all the way round the walls, due to change in levels over the years.

 

F

 

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Ferdinand