Redoctober

Moving first fix electrics

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OK, the Electrician has finished the first fix and the plaster boards are being installed. We have noticed that in two of the bedrooms, the location of the sockets for the bedside cabinets are incorrectly positioned. Ideally they should be a further 200mm apart.

How easy it this to rectify?

Is it a simple case of removing the plaster board panel to expose the cable behind and moving said cable across?

What if there isn't sufficient slack in the cable to move across 200mm?  

Hope this makes sense and I would welcome your thoughts.

 

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Did you take photos before the plasterboard when on?

 

I try and run as much as possible in a continuous run. You would know I have managed that by instead of 2 separate wires emerging from the hole, would be one wire coming out then looping back in. That would make it very easy to move a socket.

 

Do you have a photo?

 

Assuming he ran the cables around the room at socket height, the worst case it the link between the 2 sockets may need replacing with a longer bit of cable. On the other hand if he's an "up and down" man it may be a bit more involved.

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Here is a photo - the cables all stem from the ceiling space and hang down.

1716922400_DSC00956(2).thumb.JPG.8b46cc3cce31cf52c428394adeb4bfe9.JPG

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There's probably enough sway in that to move side to side a bit then. Might not strictly stay in safe zones though.

 

I can never understand why electricians do it that way up and down to each socket. I think some don't actually know you can go horizontally from socket to socket. Just makes much more sense to me, easier to do, easier to modify or add an extra socket, and uses less cable.

 

I did have a stand up argument with a joiner on a job 2 years ago when he was trying to tell me I could not do it that way and I must change it.  It remained as it was.

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Not trying to teach you to suck eggs but when you look at a wall "accessory" (include in that socket outlets, light switches, fused outlets etc) then if you were to draw vertical and horizontal bands from that accessory, left to right to each wall, up to the ceiling and down to the floor then those bands are generally thought of as safe zones where you shouldn't drill etc. The only thing that should be in those bands is another accessory. 

 

Do you mean each bedside socket moves over by 100mm?

 

If the socket has to move too far over then to denote where the cables are you can fit a single gang back box and blanking plate and route the cables through that. Even make connections in there if you have to extend.

 

Tbh Joe Public will often line whatever shelf bracket, wall clock or METAL dinner gong up with the accessory and drill away. Either it goes bang, trips the RCD, is left as an accident waiting to happen or is a near miss like below:

 

Sam_1402.thumb.jpg.3adee235c6e7da8e484eb59f434d7639.jpg

 

SAM_2727.thumb.jpg.8724499ea57b8d5b15a292bf039c30f2.jpg

 

SAM_2730.thumb.jpg.b30350a5a916d71adf1dd0273544c4e5.jpg

 

(My house when I moved in. I just knew it'd be close even though there was no fault so documented it). 

Edited by Onoff

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The trouble with safe zones, is the appear to be an official secret, and nobody else apart from electricians knows about them. So Joe public does as above, as it just looks right if you hang the picture exactly on the centreline of the switch.

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1 hour ago, ProDave said:

The trouble with safe zones, is the appear to be an official secret, and nobody else apart from electricians knows about them. So Joe public does as above, as it just looks right if you hang the picture exactly on the centreline of the switch.

 

Should be taught in schools I reckon! 

 

I've taken off a "tingly" brass wall light before fitted directly above a wall switch ("'cos it looks better") where they've had a screw either side of the T&E kissing the L where its shaved the insulation. "We have to turn the power off to change the bulb or you get a tingle!" :)

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1 hour ago, ProDave said:

The trouble with safe zones, is the appear to be an official secret, and nobody else apart from electricians knows about them. So Joe public does as above, as it just looks right if you hang the picture exactly on the centreline of the switch.

 

So very true.  Our last house had some wall lights fitted directly above a double outlet.  We wanted to change them and I was a bit shocked (literally - I got belt) when I tried to unscrew the old ones.  One screw had gone through the cable from the outlet and just nicked the line.  Goodness knows how long that screw had been live.  The house was built around 1960, and so didn't have an RCD.

 

Mind you, when I came to fit another new wall light in the same room I drilled right through another cable - that one was running at an angle down the wall...

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It's good practice to take photos of all the 1st fix electrics ( and plumbing and ducting and ....).

 

Our electrician took  a complete set of photos,of the 1st fix together with dimensioned  locations of loudspeaker cables, including location of nearest joists for positioning speaker cutouts)  that had been left in the ceiling for later connection. We're refer to it a lot for various things.

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1 hour ago, ProDave said:

The trouble with safe zones, is the appear to be an official secret, and nobody else apart from electricians knows about them. So Joe public does as above, as it just looks right if you hang the picture exactly on the centreline of the switch.

 

No secret, it's all outlined in BS6761. If in doubt buy a copy and use it - especially for self builds where you want to run all your own wiring etc.

 

All electrical designs (i.e. via consultancies) are designed to the standards and regs, we often confuse electricians as they only go by what is written in their copy of the reg's but often they don't realise that their book is just a small snippet of the full CIBSE regs and they neglect to realise that anything can be designed as long as it gets approval or is backed buy evidence, science, proven theory or a report outlining the reasons, safeguards etc. 

 

We once designed a BP office using full petrochem, ATEX regs (even though it was in the middle of a city! - BP also use some American regs! They do this so worldwide their estate is all the same) - some of which actually contradict BS6761 - M&E contracctor on site wired it as they were taught and thought and ignored the design - cost the contractor a lot to rectify it. 

 

What the OP proposes to do should be fine, 200mm is so little that if they were to bring the wire down vertically and then take it in the side then the wire would probably still sit straight - fact is anyone working on that wall in the future will note the socket and should take a zone of about 200mm either sided of the socket and out horizontally, thus even if the wire is a little diagonal it should be fine.

 

I agree, these long up and down drops are stupid - for many reasons including length of cable runs and high possibility of a snagged cable as it passes up and through more framework.

 

If it was my own house I would go horizontally and run metal conduit between the lot in inaccessible areas. 

 

 

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

 

If it was my own house I would go horizontally and run metal conduit between the lot in inaccessible areas. 

 

Weirdo! 

 

SAM_1538.thumb.jpg.78b22feb69cc08591034bf40f20a7297.jpg

 

;)

 

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4 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

Perfect!

 

 

 

I love my Hilmor! Even used 25mm tube to protect water pipes!

 

Sam_1593.thumb.jpg.573d5a03244759376b51761a3cba784a.jpg

 

I reckon those Bosch multiconstruction must have caused a few upsets going through the wall and conduit or capping! 

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2 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

I love my Hilmor! Even used 25mm tube to protect water pipes!

 

Sam_1593.thumb.jpg.573d5a03244759376b51761a3cba784a.jpg

 

I reckon those Bosch multiconstruction must have caused a few upsets going through the wall and conduit or capping! 

Hats off! Nice work.

 

Yes to the drill bits but hopefully people would stop and think if they hit metal in a solid wall... maybe me just being hopeful!

 

Edited by Carrerahill

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