Vat on claim on kitchens

[nod]

Time to make a decision on a kitchen

How much of the total below would we be able to claim the vat back

 

 

[Edited by Jeremy to remove your name and address details, just as a security precaution, hope you don't mind]

[lizzie]

If they are supply and fit they should not charge you vat on anything other than appliances - you cant claim vat on appliances - if they are supply only you can claim the vat back on everything except the appliances

[ragg987]

As @lizzie, if supply only you can reclaim VAT. Extractors are claimable, other appliances are not.

 

However, if supply and fit you need to get supplier to zero the VAT as you cannot subsequently reclaim it. Your worktop should be zero-rated at source as they fit, cabinetry I cannot tell as they do not mention fitting.

[newhome]

If there is a mix of supply only (kitchen units?) and supply and fit (worktops?) I would ask for separate invoices to avoid any confusion with the reclaim unless supply only things are clearly stated as such. I ordered my kitchen and appliances from a single supplier (supply only - the worktop came from somewhere else). The appliances were on a separate invoice all with vat included and I marked up the extractor and claimed the vat back for that in full. You may not have an issue but from reading the experience of others sometimes HMRC queries specific invoices and then don't pay out on those initially meaning you have to wait even longer for the vat to be refunded. So just make sure that it's all very clear and unambiguous. 

 

39 minutes ago, ragg987 said:

Extractors are claimable, other appliances are not.

. 

If they fit the appliances should the extractor be zero rated too? 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

7 minutes ago, newhome said:

If there is a mix of supply only (kitchen units?) and supply and fit (worktops?) I would ask for separate invoices to avoid any confusion with the reclaim unless supply only things are clearly stated as such. I ordered my kitchen and appliances from a single supplier (supply only - the worktop came from somewhere else). The appliances were on a separate invoice all with vat included and I marked up the extractor and claimed the vat back for that in full. You may not have an issue but from reading the experience of others sometimes HMRC queries specific invoices and then don't pay out on those initially meaning you have to wait even longer for the vat to be refunded. So just make sure that it's all very clear and unambiguous. 

 

. 

If they fit the appliances should the extractor be zero rated too? 

 

 

 

I'd second this.  We got caught out and lost several hundred pounds of VAT as we didn't notice that the "supply and fit" of the worktops was included in the "supply only" invoice for the kitchen, and we couldn't get the invoice corrected later.  Thankfully this wasn't for all the stone, as we added the upstands and window cills later, and these were on a separate, zero rated, invoice.  Still very annoying, though.

[ragg987]

30 minutes ago, newhome said:

If they fit the appliances should the extractor be zero rated too? 

Yes, becomes S&F of extractor so zero-rate at source.

[newhome]

1 minute ago, ragg987 said:

Yes, becomes S&F of extractor so zero-rate at source.

 

Must be hellishly difficult for traders to keep up with the sometimes quirky rules; garage doors but not motors unless the motor is part and parcel of the door operation as designed for example. 

 

 

[ragg987]

1 minute ago, newhome said:

Must be hellishly difficult for traders to keep up with the sometimes quirky rules

They have accountants? I guess if they do it once just do the same for every item they sell, would only be a problem if HMRC changed the rules a lot.

 

I think more of a problem for sole traders - my plumber told me he did not volunteer VAT breaks to customer as he then had more work to do.

[newhome]

Just now, ragg987 said:

They have accountants? I guess if they do it once just do the same for every item they sell, would only be a problem if HMRC changed the rules a lot.

 

I think more of a problem for sole traders - my plumber told me he did not volunteer VAT breaks to customer as he then had more work to do.

 

Some of the companies I had to quote would not under any circumstances zero rate their invoices. Some thought I was trying to fiddle the vat and others said it was too much hassle so I moved on. 

[lizzie]

As I understand it extractors are only zero vat if they are vented to outside recirculating ones are vatable.  Mine is recirculating as MVHR designer advised not to have outside vented one with MVHR so I have not reclaimed my vat on the extractor.....being part of my Bora hob too may have been interesting.

[Guest Alphonsox]

56 minutes ago, lizzie said:

As I understand it extractors are only zero vat if they are vented to outside recirculating ones are vatable.  Mine is recirculating as MVHR designer advised not to have outside vented one with MVHR so I have not reclaimed my vat on the extractor.....being part of my Bora hob too may have been interesting.

 

Were does your info on vented extractors come from ? According to the HMRC notes you can claim VAT on electrical appliances that are “designed to provide ventilation, air cooling or purification or dust extraction.” A recirculating extractor would seem to pass the “purification”  test. 

 

[lizzie]

2 minutes ago, Alphonsox said:

 

Were does your info on vented extractors come from ? According to the HMRC notes you can claim VAT on electrical appliances that are “designed to provide ventilation, air cooling or purification or dust extraction.” A recirculating extractor would seem to pass the “purification”  test. 

 

hmrc helpline

[newhome]

Just now, Alphonsox said:

 

Were does your info on vented extractors come from ? According to the HMRC notes you can claim VAT on electrical appliances that are “designed to provide ventilation, air cooling or purification or dust extraction.” A recirculating extractor would seem to pass the “purification”  test. 

 

 

I claimed for my extractor (it's not vented to the outside due to MVHR). 

[ragg987]

Internal recirculators here as well. Zero rated as supply and fit.

[lizzie]

I could have tried and messed about for ages. Its part of my Bora hob and there is much debate as to what is allowed if anything as the hob and extractor are one unit.  How could it be apportioned...hmrc have not themselves settled on a formula,  I have heard of one being allowed vented to outside and another rejected recirculating. Its particular to integrated hob extraction but I did pose the general question and was told they dont allow recirculation at all.

 

On regular extractors maybe if they dont know from the paperwork it goes through or maybe it depends on the individual case officer or if your supplier kindly zero rates hmrc never know.

 

 I didnt want a 20k+ claim held up whilst it was debated by hmrc for the sake of a few hundred, I have more than that in wasted vat not able to be reclaimed as invoices were not in my name and we couldn’t get them redone. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by lizzie

[ryder72]

Extractors only allowed if they ventilate. Recirculation not permitted.

Cookers such as range cookers allowed if they also provide heat for the house (AGA).

 

Furniture allowed.

Appliances not allowed

Worktops allowed

Boiling water taps are in the grey area. If its an all in one then its been allowed in the past but I dont think they are up to speed on this one.

sinks - allowed

 

A supplier is allowed to zero rate all of the above including installation but not installation of any non-allowable appliances.

 

The rules frankly are pretty stupid and I am quite surprised they are still as relaxed as they are. For instance you can claim for fitted wardrobes provided there is only 1 shelf and 1 hanging rail but they havent mandated for instance that kitchen cabinets are allowed but soft close mechanisms arent.

 

[le-cerveau]

13 minutes ago, ryder72 said:

Extractors only allowed if they ventilate. Recirculation not permitted.

 

My extractors were VAT free and they are recirculation units, they are part of the ventilation system so allowed.

[newhome]

1 hour ago, ryder72 said:

For instance you can claim for fitted wardrobes provided there is only 1 shelf and 1 hanging rail

 

You can’t claim for fitted wardrobes unless the wardrobe encloses a space bordered by the walls, ceiling and floor. The sides and back must use three walls of the room and you must open the wardrobe doors and see the walls and ceiling of the house. In addition as you note you can only have a single shelf and hanging rail.

Edited August 6, 2018 by newhome

[Nickfromwales]

5 minutes ago, newhome said:

 

You can’t claim for fitted wardrobes unless the wardrobe encloses a space bordered by the walls, ceiling and floor. The sides and back must use three walls of the room and you must open the wardrobe doors and see the walls and ceiling of the house. In addition as you note you can only have a single shelf and hanging rail.

And what about after your refund has been safely cleared in the bank?........

[le-cerveau]

50 minutes ago, newhome said:

In addition as you note you can only have a single shelf and hanging rail.

In a couple of the rented houses we lived in (build build to base spec) this was evident (MoD requirements for wardrobes in bedrooms) a large fitted wardrobe, over 2m wide with a single (unsupported) shelf and rail. There was massive sag before we got there!

 

The rules are impracticable for anything over 1m wide!

 

I had the wardrobe built in (stud end wall) the doors and the single shelf VAT free, then everything else build by my builder and VAT chargeable, to make the wardrobes usable.

[newhome]

2 minutes ago, le-cerveau said:

The rules are impracticable for anything over 1m wide!

 

Mine are over 1m and haven’t sagged, and I am the world’s worst person for overloading them with stuff. Haven’t looked to see how they are fixed TBH but hubby knew I would put 3 tons of stuff in so possibly fixed everything accordingly. I agree though, you can do what you like afterwards in terms of adding internal fittings or otherwise. My wardrobes came as part of the TF kit so it would have been a nightmare to try to separate the cost of the wardrobes from the main  invoice if they hadn’t been supplied as eligible items. 

[newhome]

57 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

And what about after your refund has been safely cleared in the bank?........

 

Lol you can do what you like then cos you ain’t claiming the vat back! ? I haven’t altered mine though. 

[ryder72]

8 hours ago, newhome said:

 

You can’t claim for fitted wardrobes unless the wardrobe encloses a space bordered by the walls, ceiling and floor. The sides and back must use three walls of the room and you must open the wardrobe doors and see the walls and ceiling of the house. In addition as you note you can only have a single shelf and hanging rail.

Sorry you are technically right.

 

But it could be that the housings are free and the doors and shelves very expensive .

[newhome]

1 hour ago, ryder72 said:

Sorry you are technically right.

 

But it could be that the housings are free and the doors and shelves very expensive .

 

For sure, but I didn't want someone reading that you could claim back for fitted wardrobes without being aware of the significant restrictions. I guess you can get 'free' kitchen appliances when you buy the cupboards too ...

 

 

[ryder72]

2 hours ago, newhome said:

 

For sure, but I didn't want someone reading that you could claim back for fitted wardrobes without being aware of the significant restrictions. I guess you can get 'free' kitchen appliances when you buy the cupboards too ...

 

 

Its known to happen. ?