Help with kitchen renovation/ 1st house.

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, PeterW said:

If you look at the pics it shows you the cuts - you need to do an inset 45 degree cut on bullnose worktop otherwise you end up with an open join on a 90 degree corner.

 

 

Ive looked it over but cant see what abc is or for on it. I can see, I think with the grey shapes I assume worktop shapes to ultimately achieve by using it, but cannot correspond these results to the jig. I mean what's the hole with '35mm' next to it for? why are there funny shapes to it at btm, one side of straight bit is funny angled.

 

Its just kinda funny lookin.

[PeterW]

3 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I mean what's the hole with '35mm' next to it for?

 

Routing 35mm hinge holes.

 

There are plenty of Youtube resources for using worktop jigs and most are pretty similar.

[zoothorn]

28 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

Routing 35mm hinge holes.

 

There are plenty of Youtube resources for using worktop jigs and most are pretty similar.

 

Ok thanks chaps- seen/ now I see what the shapes on jig are for.. never heard of a mason's mitre before. Seems alot more complicated than a 45*.. & not as neat? why is this joint chosen instead?

[Jeremy Harris]

15 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Ok thanks chaps- seen/ now I see what the shapes on jig are for.. never heard of a mason's mitre before. Seems alot more complicated than a 45*.. & not as neat? why is this joint chosen instead?

 

 

Because it's strong and closes the joint tightly, especially at the front.  It's not too hard to do, and learning to do it gives you other marking out tool skills that will be very useful on other jobs, so it's worth having a go.  There are always people her who can answer any question, no matter how silly it may seem, as we've all been there once and sat with a puzzled look as to how to do something neatly.

 

 

[zoothorn]

35mm hinge holes? hinges on.. door hinges?

 

anyway appreciate the info. I think its going to be far easier to keep the wood edge, renovate it > replace just the tiled inset area, with something correct for the job. It needs to be solid/ heavy, but cuttable & joinable for my 45* "L'' shape without moisture getting in.. ie not mdf clad stuff, but not solid granite either.

 

I need to do touchy feely idealy.. but limited sources here aberystwyth area Im sure.

[zoothorn]

5 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

Because it's strong and closes the joint tightly, especially at the front.  It's not too hard to do, and learning to do it gives you other marking out tool skills that will be very useful on other jobs, so it's worth having a go.  There are always people her who can answer any question, no matter how silly it may seem, as we've all been there once and sat with a puzzled look as to how to do something neatly.

 

 

 

Ok JSHarris that seems another good suggestion. Using routers I'm sure I could do the mitre joint. Is the idea with these to make such a good join as to be almost or actually seamless? the corner nip off 45* job (foreground edge in pic) bit is my big prob, biscuit joints I can rarelty get perfect as the depth of cut never is consistant.. that's with a lowly biscuit cutter I have/ Im not spending £100 on another just for this one job (I'd rarely use it again) & think whatever tools I'll be struggling to get this a pro std finish.. stress job I envisage.

[Jeremy Harris]

8 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Ok JSHarris that seems another good suggestion. Using routers I'm sure I could do the mitre joint. Is the idea with these to make such a good join as to be almost or actually seamless? the corner nip off 45* job (foreground edge in pic) bit is my big prob, biscuit joints I can rarelty get perfect as the depth of cut never is consistant.. that's with a lowly biscuit cutter I have/ Im not spending £100 on another just for this one job (I'd rarely use it again) & think whatever tools I'll be struggling to get this a pro std finish.. stress job I envisage.

 

 

Years ago (at least 30) I bought a second hand Black and Decker plunge router from an advert in the local paper.  I can't remember what I paid for it, but it can't have been much more than a fiver at the time.  The first job I used it for was to cut kitchen worktop joints, using a cheap jig and the jointing kits that use a bolt-like device that sits in routed out slots underneath the surface. 

 

I can't say I've used the router a lot, but it did come out again when building our new house, when I went and bought a biscuit cutter bit and used it to make biscuit joints to end-join our oak skirting boards.  After a bit of experimenting on some scrap wood I ended up with a home-made jig that held two long oak planks in exactly the right position, with a guide for the router to cut the rebates.  It worked a treat, but only really because 30 years ago I spent some time learning how to mark out and set up a jig, and use the router safely and accurately.

[zoothorn]

JSHarris- tbh I hate doing biscuit joints.. I can never get the 2 perfectly flush so ballaching sanding happens as a result- hateful job. I must avoid this joint at all costs. Ive just seen some youtube clip of a breakfast bar curved edge (actually using a diy simple jig to get the curve) which seems much more practical than replicating this with a trickier mitre-jointed 45* EDGE profile I have under my elbows here as I type.

 

So is it feasable to make a decent 45* join (thats the ''L'' shape/ joining of two worktops) using a homemade jig I wonder? how is the worktop jig used to make this 45* joint? surely its just a Q of a straight cut.. which only needs a straight edge is my point.

[Onoff]

There's a fair chance your walls won't be at 90^o so doing a 45^o isn't quite as simple. Ideally you lay one board on the units against the wall, lay the other one atop it against it's wall - both overlength and split the difference. A bit of a pig to mark out first time. Can be done though. Mine / acceptable:

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

Onoff looks terrific, but I cant see an L shape there.. but a more complicated 3-way/ section affair.

 

How is a 45* join made, using the jig whatnot's 45* whatsit?

Edited June 20, 2018 by zoothorn

[Onoff]

47 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Onoff looks terrific, but I cant see an L shape there.. but a more complicated 3-way/ section affair.

 

How is a 45* join made, using the jig whatnot's 45* whatsit?

 

Just showing you can make a join without a jig. 

 

For your right angle buy a jig. I'm the King of being told how to do something and going my own way btw so if I say buy a jig...buy a jig.

 

1) It's neater

2) Doing it at 45 and you'll need an extra 600mm+ of worktop anyway. That'll cost you more than a £16 jig.

 

A couple more

of mine done with a jig:

 

 

 

If you're really cheap...worktop corner trim. Wickes, B&Q etc:

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Onoff

[zoothorn]

Ah I see what you mean re. the 3-way one.. ggod job. But why if this is so good, would I need a jig though? the jig one you did is the one I -can- see the join of. the very cheek I know.

 

Tbh Im not sure I actually like these mitre joins myself. I can't see the design point of them. They're certainly not 'lookers' are they? or is the idea they're meant to be more or if not all invisible done this way?

 

Im weighing up between 'better job' of a square edged worktop, router a round edg &/ add trim (not too disimilar to some of my work, so prob do ok 1st time.. tho the pivot point hole Im trying to figure out how w'out making a hole in worktop surface) & joining either mitred or 45*.

Or keep the wood edge & base of tops as they are, remove tiles/ fill in with some of JSHarris' suggested bathroom board stuff.. or something VG quality.

 

Thing with buying jig is literally the one join I'll ever do with it is this L join. Then its redundant.

 

can the 45* join be done without a jig? can the rebated underside bits for the clampy whatnots be done without a jig?

 

 

[Ferdinand]

On 20/06/2018 at 11:58, Hecateh said:

I love the idea of a penny floor - wonder if I could do it in the entrance hall?

 

 

I make it 2500-3000 pennies per sqm. Ish.

 

Good project for a weekend !

[Ferdinand]

On 19/06/2018 at 15:51, zoothorn said:

Hi chaps- If you can help: I have generally a bad 80's-diy-disater kitchen, some of I'll be keeping (due to ultra-tight budget).. to revamp myself.

 

To replace 1st: 2 worktops, tricky one is L-shaped, with this (foreground) 45*-off end section being the headache- how. And the join to make 'L'.

 

Is a rounded edge possible instead here? I'm talking 44mm basic worktop, not granite or any fancier stuff.

 

Thanks, zoot

 

 

 

 

 

With a simple shape like that you will be able to get a complete secondhand one off eBay for perhaps a couple of hundred, maybe with appliances and even the sink.

 

Watch for one locally, check sizes, go and look, then buy it.

 

If you just want to do your worktop, then what about 600x600 large tiles?

 

Or if you really hate mason’s mitres, then consider a sit on top sink to replace your current one, butting up to the L.

 

Or a joiner could probably replace the worktop for you in half a day or a day for 100-200.

 

Ferdinand

Edited June 22, 2018 by Ferdinand

[Onoff]

You can do a 90deg corner as 2 45deg cuts. You will need an extra +600mm extra worktop on one leg to do this.

 

 

I was lucky as two 3m worktops came with slight damage and got replaced. I got to keep the damaged bits so had extra to play with. With a plain finish you will see this more than one like mine. You should still biscuit and pocket such a join imo.

 

A 45 join will be a longer join for water to potentially get under.

 

You will likely notice where the two woktops meet in the internal corner more than with a jig.

 

You can make a simple jig from scrap to do the pockets underneath.

 

99.9% of people use a jig for a 90. If you don't you're going against the grain. 

 

If you want to route a radius on that corner you just turn the worktop upside down and centre it on the "cardboard" side. You risk "breakout" one end of the cut.

 

At the price for that jig Peter posted you could likely use it then sell on eBay and get your money back.

 

You're not by any chance after my Procrastination Crown are you?

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Onoff

[Gone West]

5 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

 

I make it 2500-3000 pennies per sqm. Ish.

 

Is that 1p or 1d.

[Ferdinand]

8 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

Is that 1p or 1d.

 

1p At 20.3mm diameter.

 

50 x 50 ish plus the extra for a hexagonal grid.

 

£30 per sqm so the same as a nice tile.

 

But you get backache even more and resin is not cheap.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Ferdinand

[zoothorn]

Procrastinattion.. yes I get the point, but I'm a 1st time buyer, no experience of kitchen work, with little budget (but, I use routers alot so capable most likely). I'm on my own totally here, no help to even get an opinion too: so, I have to research to the extra nth you see (Im still undecided on removing tiles/ keep lip/ fill.. or replace all tops) & if nothing's jumping out yet ie 'this is the way'.. I'm not jumping in. And I will ask another Q if I have to.

 

I have samples of the shower wall stuff- good quality ply & formica. Getting the shape to fit the recessed tile-only area.. needs thought.

 

Appreciate the diagram- understand the 45* needs extra stock/ wasting more. So the mitre join is the right approach if I go replace all tops.

 

In order to avoid the angled foreground 'nip off' section.. Id never do this perfect 1st time.. Im thinking a rounded edge/ router from a pivot point to form the 1/4 circle cut. But how's this done w'out making a hole @ the pivot point, in the new counter top?

 

 

[Onoff]

2 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Im thinking a rounded edge/ router from a pivot point to form the 1/4 circle cut. But how's this done w'out making a hole @ the pivot point, in the new counter top?

 

You stick the pivot point in the other side of the worktop i.e not the good side.

[Onoff]

Imo trying to round the edge like this on laminate worktop will look crap. The edging you stick on doesn't like being bent anyway.

[zoothorn]

16 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Imo trying to round the edge like this on laminate worktop will look crap. The edging you stick on doesn't like being bent anyway.

 

 

Ive just found the clip again of a worktop round edge cut (used a precut mdf diy round-edge jig/ plonk ontop to follow to make the curve cut below.. so answers the Q of the pivot point/ only needed to make the jig in his case..)

 

He seems to have done the edge ok.. what do you think? maybe this guy's a very good pro I'm not sure. If this is a good way to go, for me.. then replacing worktops/ a more 'proper job' jumps out at me as being 'the sensible/ the right plan'.

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by zoothorn

[Onoff]

I was thinking you meant to use rounded edge worktop like mine. Getting the trim to look good where the edge goes from flat  (where you've routed the corner) to blend with the curved edge is tricky.

[zoothorn]

Well I'm now thinking, if this curve is feasable to do like ^ chap's job, then obviouisly go squared edge tops. Not sure if that means a£huge chunk more per 3m section tho/ can't see why it would.. would it?

[Onoff]

Check out Ikea for cheap 28mm worktops, 1.86m long from £30.

[zoothorn]

Good suggestion.. I do want above-ikea quality tho/ but certainly likely to be cheapest.

 

Crikey I still feel way off even a plan to redo this simple kitchen.. a real sod with no-one to physically see & advise me.