Gate Pillars

[Big Jimbo]

Post caps look great fella.

[Onoff]

This is the first bending project that folder I made was for, my second attempt at the gate video intercom shroud. I binned the first as I'd hand formed it, aka beaten it around wood and metal formers with a bfo hammer & wasn't happy. All stainless including the M4 rivnuts this time. It's still not perfect, one leg is a bit taller, I stick welded it again as I really struggled with my MIG yesterday but it'll be covered either side with the flints, lime mortared in, so most of it won't be seen:

 

 

[Onoff]

Bump.

[Onoff]

Bit of scrap ali sheet with the corners hole sawn out to cover the gate electrical box. Etch primed, to be rollered satin black to match the rest of the metalwork:



The new work bench is proving it's worth...

[Onoff]

Experimenting here with lime mortar mixes to do my flint infills.

 

In the black bucket:

2 sharp sand
1 hydrated lime

In the white bucket:

1.5 sharp sand
0.5 "orange" builders sand
1 hydrated lime

 

At this stage it all looked a bit "white" to me still. Not sure if I want to match my brick mortar or contrast against it? The mix with the half of builders sand was to make it less white.

 

 

I mixed both mixes up, left to stand for a few minutes then mixed again. Mixing....I mixed for about 5 minutes with the paddle in the cordless. Left for about 5 minutes then mixed again. Is that right?

 

Little video:

 

 

 

The mix above left, with the bit of builders sand in, is definitely more mortar coloured. 

This morning the tray mixes are setting but in no way firm/hard. In the plastic tray though moisture can't get out.

 

Thoughts are maybe the mixes are too wet to set with?

 

Planning this afternoon to drill a load of holes in the back of the pillar recesses, then put in rawlplugs. As I build the wall I'll put in a stainless wood screw to help the mortar key in. 

[Pocster]

Perhaps your radio station is wrong ?

[Onoff]

5 minutes ago, pocster said:

Perhaps your radio station is wrong ?

 

Wtf?

[Pocster]

9 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Wtf?

I think ‘ analysis’ was the continuation of the scroll 

[Onoff]

I tipped out the two test trays yesterday afternoon. Both still very damp of course and the mixture in both, "crumbly" between the fingers.

The mixes are such that I could break the samples in half by hand easy enough. So tipped out they've been able to dry out a bit more overnight. For each sample there's half with the topside facing up and half with the damp bottom facing up.

Doing the "fingernail" test and the one on the right, that was just 1 lime :2 sharp sand seems harder to dig into. More like what you'd expect on a church, old flint building etc.
 

The one on the left, the 1 lime : 1.5 sharp : 0.5 soft (for colour), although more of a mortar colour, well it seems softer and you can gouge it with your nail easier.

I'm wondering if there's an option to up the lime content (if that's what increases strength) but still make it less white?

Hope that makes sense!

Or should I just give the samples a few more days to dry out as in will everything just get harder with time?

Cheers

[PeterW]

Add a half of white cement to the mix ..? 4:1 sand and white cement gives a nice sandstone type finish 

[Onoff]

13 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Add a half of white cement to the mix ..? 4:1 sand and white cement gives a nice sandstone type finish 

 

The:

 

1 lime 

1.5 sharp 

0.5 soft builders

 

...mix isn't bad colour wise but weaker seemingly than just 2 sharp. If I add 0.5 white cement to this won't it just look "whiter" (albeit it'll be stronger I guess)?

 

I might just stick with the 1 lime:2 sharp sand and accept the contrast. Oddly it seems to have promise. You can see/feel how it will flex and self heal. All new to me this no cement lark!

 

I think as long as I have neatly defined edges between brickwork and flint panels it might look ok. That brings me back to considering having stainless angle trim around the flint panels... ?

[Onoff]

Debating sticking at 2:1 and adding some buff coloured, lime resistant mortar tone.

[Pocster]

57 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Debating sticking at 2:1 and adding some buff coloured, lime resistant mortar tone.

You could just get these made ( I know that would be too easy ) . I made my own cap stones for my wall . All was great but after 2 years just started crumbling . Found a company that will pretty well make what I want at a very reasonable price . But as we both know ; why make it easy when you can make it hard ! ( not a euphemism! )

[Onoff]

7 minutes ago, pocster said:

You could just get these made ( I know that would be too easy ) . I made my own cap stones for my wall . All was great but after 2 years just started crumbling . Found a company that will pretty well make what I want at a very reasonable price . But as we both know ; why make it easy when you can make it hard ! ( not a euphemism! )

 

I could buy flint panels off the shelf, trim them down and fit those.

 

However.....all of these flints going in were collected by SWMBO's late cousin, a keen amateur geologist. He saw something in each be it a fossil, quartz etc. They're thus being used for sentimental reasons. To be referred to as "Martin's Flints". The fact I've never played with lime mortar is just a bonus!

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, Onoff said:

 

I could buy flint panels off the shelf, trim them down and fit those.

 

However.....all of these flints going in were collected by SWMBO's late cousin, a keen amateur geologist. He saw something in each be it a fossil, quartz etc. They're thus being used for sentimental reasons. To be referred to as "Martin's Flints". The fact I've never played with lime mortar is just a bonus!

Fair enough if a sentimental journey . Using the same mind set could you not incorporate some walk on glazing ?

[Onoff]

1 minute ago, pocster said:

Fair enough if a sentimental journey . Using the same mind set could you not incorporate some walk on glazing ?

 

We've been down this road before when I mused displaying these under it!

 

 

 

 

Force fields will have replaced glass by the time I get round to doing it so I'll wait and pick the walk on glazing up dirt cheap!

[Pocster]

37 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

We've been down this road before when I mused displaying these under it!

 

 

 

 

Force fields will have replaced glass by the time I get round to doing it so I'll wait and pick the walk on glazing up dirt cheap!

Yes , yes . We have been here before . But these bargains won’t wait around forever !!

[Onoff]

5 minutes ago, pocster said:

Yes , yes . We have been here before . But these bargains won’t wait around forever !!

 

I'll have UFH in the bathroom before they sell! 

[Pocster]

44 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

I'll have UFH in the bathroom before they sell! 

Christ ! That long ?

[Onoff]

I was hoping to use this Ferrex paddle mixer I bought from Aldi a while back to mix my mortar up. Used it only once since I bought it but it's been hanging in the garage ever since.

Plugged it in and it just hums!

The paddle / shaft turn freely enough by hand.

 

Out with the screwdrivers!

 

?

 

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, pocster said:

Christ ! That's long ?

 

[Pocster]

19 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Correction … “ Christ ! That’s a long time “ ?

[Onoff]

46 minutes ago, pocster said:

Correction … “ Christ ! That’s a long time “ ?

 

Something you don't hear very often!

[Stewpot]

On 26/08/2021 at 06:19, Onoff said:

Experimenting here with lime mortar mixes to do my flint infills.

 

In the black bucket:

2 sharp sand
1 hydrated lime

In the white bucket:

1.5 sharp sand
0.5 "orange" builders sand
1 hydrated lime

 

Disclaimer: I am by no means a lime expert, but I have mucked about with it over the years, and intend using it in my build (if I ever get the PP sorted).

 

But, I fear you may not get the results you want, by doing this. The first question is, why are you trying to make a lime mortar when you seem to have used a cement mortar for the rest of the wall?

 

More fundamentally, hydrated lime really isn't the thing to be using.

 

Lime terminology is confusing, but at a basic level, there is hydrated lime, hydraulic lime, and non-hydraulic lime. Guess which is referred to as NHL? Answer - hydraulic lime (as in Natural Hydraulic Lime)!. All these go through the process of 'burning' (heating) to turn them into quicklime (which can be is quite hazardous to handle).

 

Hydrated lime is quicklime that has met with just enough moisture to set off the initial slaking reaction. The heat of this reaction drives off excess moisture, so you are left with a dry powder again. In this state it is safer to handle, and is usually used as an addmixture for mortar made with OPC - you'd use it instead of plasticiser (or washing up liquid). As the main chemical reaction has already occurred, it will be less effective as a binder on its own. People say it can be used, but is often less than satisfactory, and should be soaked in water for a couple of days (at least) to make a putty (see lower down) before use. I've never used it, so can't vouch for it.

 

Hydraulic lime is the one that will behave most like OPC, in that it has a quick initial setting time - depending upon brand, this can be as quick as 20 minutes, to 24 hours or so. This is because it has, either naturally, or added to it, impurities in it that cause a fast initial reaction - they are called pozzolanic additives. It typically comes in three different strengths. Mix it up much like OPC, without any other additives - sand, hydraulic lime and water. Like OPC, this stuff can even set under water. Natural hydraulic limes all seem to come from France.

 

Alternatively, you can use non-hydraulic lime, preferably in the form of lime putty (eg. www.limebase.co.uk/lime-putty/singleton-birch-lime-putty-21l). This is quicklime that has been fully slaked (a violent reaction, so be careful if you do it yourself), and then left to sit under water (to prevent carbonation) to mature. A couple of months may be enough, a year will be better. Or buy a tub of it ready aged. For mortar add it to sand at a ratio of 3 or 4 to 1. You can also add pozzolans at this stage, to speed things up - brick dust, apparently, works, though I've never tried, so wouldn't know how much to add. Don't add water when you first mix the sand and lime - the lime putty will work up with the sand and become more pliable after a bit of mixing. Add water later if it is not usable enough.

 

It's also important to realise that lime fully cures by absorbing carbon dioxide out of the air, and needs moisture to keep this process going. It can take a long time - months, even years - before full carbonation takes place. To an extent, you have to take loving care of a lime mix, especially with render and plaster. In return, lime has the property of being self-healing if the building should settle - if carbonation isn't yet complete, any cracks will re-seal. And it is vapour permeable, allowing wet masonry to dry out better. And produces less net carbon dioxide that OPC. Plus, I think it's lovely to work with.

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Stewpot
Typo

[Pocster]

37 minutes ago, Stewpot said:

 

Disclaimer: I am by no means a lime expert, but I have mucked about with it over the years, and intend using it in my build (if I ever get the PP sorted).

 

But, I fear you may not get the results you want, by doing this. The first question is, why are you trying to make a lime mortar when you seem to have used a cement mortar for the rest of the wall?

 

More fundamentally, hydrated lime really isn't the thing to be using.

 

Lime terminology is confusing, but at a basic level, there is hydrated lime, hydraulic lime, and non-hydraulic lime. Guess which is referred to as NHL? Answer - hydraulic lime (as in Natural Hydraulic Lime)!. All these go through the process of 'burning' (heating) to turn them into quicklime (which can be is quite hazardous to handle).

 

Hydrated lime is quicklime that has met with just enough moisture to set off the initial slaking reaction. The heat of this reaction drives off excess moisture, so you are left with a dry powder again. In this state it is safer to handle, and is usually used as an addmixture for mortar made with OPC - you'd use it instead of plasticiser (or washing up liquid). As the main chemical reaction has already occurred, it will be less effective as a binder on its own. People say it can be used, but is often less than satisfactory, and should be soaked in water for a couple of days (at least) to make a putty (see lower down) before use. I've never used it, so can't vouch for it.

 

Hydraulic lime is the one that will behave most like OPC, in that it has a quick initial setting time - depending upon brand, this can be as quick as 20 minutes, to 24 hours or so. This is because it has, either naturally, or added to it, impurities in it that cause a fast initial reaction - they are called pozzolanic additives. It typically comes in three different strengths. Mix it up much like OPC, without any other additives - sand, hydraulic lime and water. Like OPC, this stuff can even set under water. Natural hydraulic limes all seem to come from France.

 

Alternatively, you can use non-hydraulic lime, preferably in the form of lime putty (eg. www.limebase.co.uk/lime-putty/singleton-birch-lime-putty-21l). This is quicklime that has been fully slaked (a violent reaction, so be careful if you do it yourself), and then left to sit under water (to prevent carbonation) to mature. A couple of months may be enough, a year will be better. Or buy a tub of it ready aged. For mortar add it to sand at a ratio of 3 or 4 to 1. You can also add pozzolans at this stage, to speed things up - brick dust, apparently, works, though I've never tried, so wouldn't know how much to add. Don't add water when you first mix the sand and lime - the lime putty will work up with the sand and become more pliable after a bit of mixing. Add water later if it is not usable enough.

 

It's also important to realise that lime fully cures by absorbing carbon dioxide out of the air, and needs moisture to keep this process going. It can take a long time - months, even years - before full carbonation takes place. To an extent, you have to take loving care of a lime mix, especially with render and plaster. In return, lime has the property of being self-healing if the building should settle - if carbonation isn't yet complete, any cracks will re-seal. And it is vapour permeable, allowing wet masonry to dry out better. And produces less net carbon dioxide that OPC. Plus, I think it's lovely to work with.

 

I was going to say all that aswell