"working out" a budget UFH manifold controller

[ProDave]

One thing you need with under floor heating is the electrical controls for the manifold.  As an electrician I have wired many different makes. Most have struck me as over complicated with features that are never used, poorly thought out making them very hard to wire neatly with insufficient space for cable termination, and over expensive for what they are.

 

Then I found this one:

  On sale very cheap on ebay  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-ZONE-UNDERFLOOR-HEATING-WIRING-CENTRE/132318857114?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

Before I bought it I did some searching and found the instruction manual http://www.auraton.pl/wp-content/uploads/_instrukcje/en/manual_AURATON_4DPRO_en.pdf

 

That is it. That is the entire instruction manual, you get a paper copy of that with the item.

 

First impressions. The manual is about as much use as a chocolate tea pot. There is not enough information to safely and correctly connect it and expect it to work, let alone understand what exactly it is doing.

 

However once you work it out, it does indeed do everything you need it to do. You just need to fill in the blanks.

 

Firstly the themostat terminals (variously referred to as such things as "terminals of cable controllers")  There is a pair of terminals for each room thermostat for the 4 zones. It is important to note that the left hand of each pair of terminals is the L supply out (internally linked to the L into the unit) to the thermostat, and the right hand of each pair of terminals is the switched L back from the thermostat into this unit.  If your thermostat needs a neutral, you will have to link that independantly.

 

The output terminals are one pair for each zone. The left hand of each pair being N internally linked to N in, and the right hand pair being switched L to the zone actuator valves.

 

There is a global switched L out to turn on the pump when any zone calls for heat, and a volt free changeover relay contact to link to the boiler / heap pump etc.

 

So it does what it should, just  shame you have to do a bit of detective work to fathom it out.

 

I just thought I would mention this if anyone else was after a budget controller.

[epsilonGreedy]

Noted thank you.

 

What final budget did you achieve by sourcing your own UFH materials/components?

 

I am currently waiting for my Nuheat quote following a chat with them at the Swindon self build show 10 days ago.

 

At the other end of the scale my self build neighbour seemed happy with an all-in price of £4k for 90 m2 of ground floor screeding over beam & block with UFH supply & fit included in the same job.

[ProDave]

I got all my UFH parts for downstairs for £502  I had one company price up a supply only package and that was just a few £ short of £1K

 

I still need a manifold for upstairs, but everybody was out of stock of 2 port manifolds so I will buy that later.

[Cpd]

Great stuff, thanks for the heads up. Will follow the same route. 

[epsilonGreedy]

14 hours ago, Cpd said:

Great stuff, thanks for the heads up. Will follow the same route. 

 

And so will I if I can comprehend the diy steps ProDave took, at these prices UFH is nearly the budget option when compared to plumbing in 3 decent looking radiators.

[PeterW]

UFH is a budget option if you have the planning and foresight to put the pipes in the slab. Manifolds are expensive, controls don’t need to be. 

 

There is nothing wrong with running everything as a single zone and just balancing the flows to equalise the temperature. The issue may be an over zealous BCO who wants “zoned controls” although how you advise them that there is no heating in the upstairs “zone” is beyond me ... 

 

After having worked on one of the most complex systems I’ve seen (thanks @newhome...) that has 4 manifolds, 4 controllers, 14 zones and 15 programmable stats, the simplicity of a single zone and a constant flow is compelling.

 

Furthermore if you have MVHR, you will need to be cautious that you are not really “not heating” a zone as you will be creating airflow between rooms constantly. 

[Nickfromwales]

@ProDave

This any good ?

[ProDave]

That's pretty normal.

 

The way they stack the terminals, things get very cosy indeed when you have a thermostat and then say 3 actuators connected to each zone.

 

How much did that one cost?

[epsilonGreedy]

 

15 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Furthermore if you have MVHR, you will need to be cautious that you are not really “not heating” a zone as you will be creating airflow between rooms constantly. 

 

 

Hmm yes I see the general point being made. When I was going through my anti UFH phase I mentioned my concern about excess heat in bedrooms, the pro UFH lobby contended that even with UFH downstairs and MVHR, the bedrooms will still be a few degrees cooler.

 

I hope the same will apply with a 2-zone system downstairs i.e. mid-week there would be no need to heat the formal sitting room hence a few pennies can be saved running it a bit cooler with that UFH zone off. Life style in a not quite passiv house requires some guesswork on my part and my judgement is probably clouded by my current rental property that guzzles 2500 liters of oil per year and still needs localized top up heating with a portable electric radiator. 

[newhome]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

After having worked on one of the most complex systems I’ve seen (thanks @newhome...) that has 4 manifolds, 4 controllers, 14 zones and 15 programmable stats

 

Every day’s a school day . Happy to oblige 

[newhome]

6 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

I hope the same will apply with a 2-zone system downstairs i.e. mid-week there would be no need to heat the formal sitting room hence a few pennies can be saved running it a bit cooler with that UFH zone off. 

 

I’ve got many zones as @PeterW says but actually I mostly use the whole house as a 4 zone affair; 2 upstairs and 2 downstairs, split into ‘rooms I use’ and ‘rooms I don’t use’. For the latter I have set them to frost setting, keep the doors closed, and the other rooms run quite happily at a temperature that suits me with downstairs set to 20c and upstairs set to 18c. The zones I use are set to lower temperatures when I’m out of the house at work and then about an hour before I return home it heats back up to 20c so it’s definitely not cooking on gas (or in my case electric) 24x7. My system performed so poorly before it was sorted out I was very sceptical about how it could possibly work efficiently but so far so good! 

[Nickfromwales]

32 minutes ago, ProDave said:

How much did that one cost?

Your missing the point dave

That was a remnant, ( left over item from @newhome's conundrum of plumbing bewilderment ), which is going begging. 

If it's any good it's your FOC. ?

[PeterW]

http://www.wundafloorheating.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/E09-Generic-wiring-Plumbing-Guide-Oct-5-2017.pdf

 

wiring for it is E09 I think. 

[newhome]

31 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Your missing the point dave

That was a remnant, ( left over item from @newhome's conundrum of plumbing bewilderment ), which is going begging. 

If it's any good it's your FOC. ?

 

I think there is another one of those in the garage as I nearly chucked it out last weekend in my endless garage clearout quest. Ran out of room in the car so it lived to see another day. It’s not in a box and may be a bit dusty but I will check when I get home and then that may also be going begging too if anyone wants it. 

[ProDave]

@Nickfromwales and @newhome

 

I will have the one going begging. I still need another one, I only bought one of my cheap ones to evaluate so yes please I will give it a good home.

[newhome]

Just now, ProDave said:

@Nickfromwales and @newhome

 

I will have the one going begging. I still need another one, I only bought one of my cheap ones to evaluate so yes please I will give it a good home.

 

@Nickfromwales do you want to pass @ProDave the one you have, and I’ll check out the one I still have to make sure it’s not nuked and will post it here if it looks ok and then someone else can have it. 

[Nickfromwales]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

@Nickfromwales and @newhome

 

I will have the one going begging. I still need another one, I only bought one of my cheap ones to evaluate so yes please I will give it a good home.

Ok ?  

PM me and @newhome with your address and I'll send the one Ive got after the weekend. 

[Nickfromwales]

3 minutes ago, newhome said:

 

@Nickfromwales do you want to pass @ProDave the one you have, and I’ll check out the one I still have to make sure it’s not nuked and will post it here if it looks ok and then someone else can have it. 

?

[Nickfromwales]

The one I've got looks BNIB, complete with bag of cable clamps, screws etc 

[newhome]

32 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

The one I've got looks BNIB, complete with bag of cable clamps, screws etc 

 

I found that one on top of the TS still in its box where I suspect it has been for the last 8 years before it moved abroad to Wales  so should be BNIB. 

 

[Nickfromwales]

35 minutes ago, newhome said:

 

I found that one on top of the TS still in its box where I suspect it has been for the last 8 years before it moved abroad to Wales  so should be BNIB. 

 

I caught @PeterW trying to smuggle it out in his y-fronts. @ProDave will have to use latex gloves whilst disinfecting it. . 

I only kept it to save peters shame. 

Its here next to me right now, strangely it seems to be attracting a lot of flies.  

 

[PeterW]

Just now, Nickfromwales said:

Its here next to me right now, strangely it seems to be attracting a lot of flies.  

 

Nothing to do with some "picnic eggs" and a "Henry nappy" eh @Nickfromwales...??

 

@ProDave I think you can link these too so you can trigger the ASHP from a single unit. Little Willy had the joyous job of finding which one of the 80 permutations of wiring pairs connected the 4 manifolds together when we were with @newhome

[newhome]

11 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 I think you can link these too so you can trigger the ASHP from a single unit.

 

So does @ProDave need both control boxes? Or do different types link together? 

[ProDave]

I only need 1, I will use the one I have just bought for the other.

 

There will be 1 manifold and 1 controller on each floor. They will operate independantly possible even on at different times so there is no need for them to link together so it matters not that they are different. I have not bought the upstairs manifoild yet so that too may end up different to the downstairs one.

[ProDave]

I will almost certainly use the one I have just bought for the downstairs manifold. Now I have put it in a spare DIN rail enclosure, it is such a perfect fit.

 

 

Then I will use the one from @newhome with the yet to be bought manifold for upstairs.