IVT Ecolane ASHP - any owners out there?

[PTUK]

8 hours ago, PeterW said:

Flap valves are used on the continent for water flow - quite neat but do need a pump to make them work. 

 

You're about on the edge of the performance an IVT can give asking for 55c water from it. Is the DHW tank new or is it quite small as you could drop the temperature on that however you do really need a high power / surface area coil to get the most out of the heat pump into the tank. 

 

Alternate option would be to use a buffer but put the coil in line with the cold supply into the DHW tank and use as a pre heater. Adds a bit more complexity but no moving parts 

 

 

PeterW at the moment I think I’m just going with your earlier suggestions about reconfiguring the UFH manifold and run the three loops on the ASHP

 

The DHW is a new tank fitted by me this summer it is 350 litre it has 3 pairs of  “inputs or outputs” the whole tank is filled with “dirty fernox treated” water the DHW comes straight from the street through the heat exchanger and to the hot water taps. It has 2 x emersion heaters. Currently wood burning stove also supply heat to the tank 10 radiators connected to one of the outputs.

 

the original plan was to only have this tank heated by the wood burning stove and emersion heater on economy 7 electric. Tank was going to supply heat to DHW and 10 radiators and the 45m2 UFH  however it has become evident that I’m at the limit of what this tank can cope with so that’s why I got the ASHP to just run the 45m2 UFH 

 

The tank has a pair of inputs spare and if the ASHP has spare capacity and its feasible I am considering connecting the ASHP to the tank but I’m not hell bent on getting this done if it’s too much for the ASHP

 

the idea of preheating the DHW through a separate buffer tank would have been very nice but the pipe work for this is just not feasible

 

 

 

 

 

[PeterW]

That’s a thermal store ..... 

 

 

[PTUK]

On 08/12/2018 at 18:42, PeterW said:

That’s a thermal store ..... 

 

 

 

Yes sorry it is a thermal store that’s why I’m considering storing any excess heat in there but only if it doesn’t compromise on the efficiency of the ASHP and UFH

[PeterW]

On 08/12/2018 at 06:34, testom said:

@PeterW I have found that B2 & B3 terminal gives +24V as a output signal. 

I have finnaly plugged two small LED`s there.

And I must say this LED`s gives  nice indication to what is actually going on with ASHP. 

 

 

@testom how have you wired these LEDs...?? Where have you taken to ground ..??

[testom]

On 12/12/2018 at 01:46, PeterW said:

 

@testom how have you wired these LEDs...?? Where have you taken to ground ..??

Straight to 24V DC  power supply.

Regards

[PeterW]

Ok so 24v from the B2/B3 and then 0v to the ground on the power supply. 

[testom]

On 14/12/2018 at 09:44, PeterW said:

Ok so 24v from the B2/B3 and then 0v to the ground on the power supply. 

Thats correct.

By the way of update-I have manage to replace (so far) 11 radiators to a new type alloy made. Still 4more left to go. I will do it after x-mas.

One single alloy radiator takes (approx) 3 liters of water.  In compare to steel radiators - thats 50 liters of water less to heat up in my system. 

[PTUK]

Hello guys 

 

Some more questions unfortunately

 

The screed is now dry so it’s time to connect the ASHP to the underfloor heating manifold.

 

I’m struggling to find the braided flexible hose 1” to 28mm compression fitting can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

Is 4 core cable ok between the grey 24volt box and the ASHP?

 

What antifreeze / inhibitor should I use

 

Thanks

 

Pieter

[Mariusz]

Testom, what are your impressions after replacing radiators, do you see differences in energy consumption?

[DeeJunFan]

On 05/12/2018 at 23:38, PeterW said:

The IVT box runs 100% or nothing, it bridges the A1-A2-A3 connections. You’re going to need to break that up as 100% will cook the floor. 

 

You need to balance all the loops hence why I suggested the Wunda actuators - they balance flow and return to delta 7c which is ideal - set the pipe stat to 7c lower than rhe flow you need and it will control the floor temperature. 

 

Those valves you have circled are ball/butterfly valves - use them to isolate the manifold. 

 

And you can bridge the 4th port but you have to put a valve in there somewhere as otherwise the resistance will be nothing and you’ll get no flow through the floor. 

 

OK,  how do you break that? 

 

I'm getting some very strange behavior from my IVT.   The temp is getting very high i now understand why. 

 

But i'm also seeing instances where the thermostat calls for heat and the lights go on on the controller but the actual heat pump doesn't start.   If i then turn off the controller and back on again the heat pump kicks in.   A number of times also i've had an overheat because the heat pump doesnt swtich off when the stat stops calling for heat and the controller switches off.  This then leads to very hot towel radiators that i was told to fit as constant open loops. 

 

I've been looking to see if there are any better controllers or anything i can do manually to try and get some better performance.   Turning it way down from 100% would be a good start. 

 

Thanks

Damian

 

[PeterW]

Right... disconnect A3 from the internal connection on the Heat Pump and it will drop you down to 80%

 

 

If you’re hitting overheat then it’s odd as it should go through your open loop. 

[DeeJunFan]

1 minute ago, PeterW said:

Right... disconnect A3 from the internal connection on the Heat Pump and it will drop you down to 80%

 

 

If you’re hitting overheat then it’s odd as it should go through your open loop. 

 

Thanks for that. 

 

Yes a good few times i had to "Reboot" the controller and then noticed a few hours later that the Thermostat is at say 23-24 degrees and not calling for heat motorized valves are closed to the floor loops.  Green light is off on the controller but the heat pump is still running and my towel rads are pumping hot. Scald risk hot

[PeterW]

What code is showing on the digital display on the main board..?

 

you can set the status by changing one of the DIP switches. 

[DeeJunFan]

16 hours ago, PeterW said:

What code is showing on the digital display on the main board..?

 

you can set the status by changing one of the DIP switches. 

 

Didnt know there was a digitial display!

 

I'll take the cover off this evening and see if there is anything on it. 

 

We have only had the heat pump on about twice in the last few months and the last time it didn't turn off and the house ended up at over 24.7 degrees.   And its doing our electricity bill no favours. 

 

Thanks

 

[ProDave]

13 minutes ago, DeeJunFan said:

 

Didnt know there was a digitial display!

 

I'll take the cover off this evening and see if there is anything on it. 

 

We have only had the heat pump on about twice in the last few months and the last time it didn't turn off and the house ended up at over 24.7 degrees.   And its doing our electricity bill no favours. 

 

Thanks

 

Then there is something seriously wrong with the way it is wired.

 

Each zone of the UFH should have it's own room themostat.  When all zones are up to temperature the manifold controller will turn off it's "call for heat" and the ASHP should shut down.

 

Something is wrong. Sadly this is not surprising as so many electricians just don't understand how to wire this sort of thing.

[PeterW]

12 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Then there is something seriously wrong with the way it is wired.

 

Each zone of the UFH should have it's own room themostat.  When all zones are up to temperature the manifold controller will turn off it's "call for heat" and the ASHP should shut down.

 

Something is wrong. Sadly this is not surprising as so many electricians just don't understand how to wire this sort of thing.

 

These things are dead simple - it sounds like @DeeJunFan has a wiring issue on the unit though, as the control unit on these is very basic. It is 4 wires, A1-3 and A5 and once A5 is disconnected then the heat pump will not run.

 

@DeeJunFan do you have a separate pump  in addition to the manifold, and how is this controlled..??

[DeeJunFan]

So my setup i thought was fairly simple. 

 

I have only 2 zones upstairs and downstairs.  So one motorised valve on each manifold and 2 thermostats.  as far as wiring goes these seem to be setup correctly as each time the thermostat goes below set temperature and enters heating mode the motorised valves click on and everything looks good.   Also the heat pump controller looks ok as it has a small green light which is on when the thermostats and valves are calling for heat and off when they are not.  

 

But i have continually got issues where the heat pump either doesn't start when the controller kicks in or doesn't turn off when the controller does.   Almost everytime the heat comes on i have to turn the controller on and off and a lot of the time when the stats stop calling for heat valves close and controller light goes out the heat pump stays on.  

[PeterW]

is it wired correctly..?? May be worth taking the front off the box and checking the wiring on the control box. Post a photo and let me know.

 

You will need to set one of the DIP switches on the main board to read the LED read out on the unit itself. Let me know if you need the manual (its a rebadged mitsubishi btw)

[DeeJunFan]

3 minutes ago, PeterW said:

is it wired correctly..?? May be worth taking the front off the box and checking the wiring on the control box. Post a photo and let me know.

 

You will need to set one of the DIP switches on the main board to read the LED read out on the unit itself. Let me know if you need the manual (its a rebadged mitsubishi btw)

 

I have no idea to be honest.  I had a manual and the spark wired everything up and the manual hasn't been seen since. 

 

I will try and get some photos up for you to have a look at. 

 

Do you need the controller wiring and the main board wiring? 

 

Thanks

Damian

[DeeJunFan]

Hi Guys,

 

The heat pump saga continues.

 

We currently have no heating because there is an earth fault on the heat pump and it keeps tipping the fuse (RCD the MCB doesn't trip)

 

I have tried to get someone who actually knows about heat pumps but its proving very difficult locally.  People can happily install them but know absolutely nothing about how they actually work or what might be causing the earth fault passed is it wet? 

 

The earth is getting 130V on startup and then gives out the full 230V after about 30/40 seconds of running.   The entire unit becomes live because the earth terminal is connected to the chassis of the unit which is some what dangerous if childern are passing by. 

 

Basically one heat pump person i spoke to reckoned it was more than likely an electrical fault than a component fault.  He reckons the DC inverter is somewhat electrically "Dirty" and may have always been feeding back from the earth and could have affected the MCB/RCD over time.  He thought we should have a type C/D fitted to work with an inverter but not sure.  Said we could try to bypass the RCD with the Heat pump as if the unit is running ok ie the inverter isn't faulting out.

 

I said this to my spark and he said they guy was talking nonsense and wont do anything. 

 

I'm awaiting some sort of service engineer but i have no idea if we are going to find someone who knows what they are looking at. 

 

Any suggestions welcome. 

 

Thanks

D

[ProDave]

38 minutes ago, DeeJunFan said:

The earth is getting 130V on startup and then gives out the full 230V after about 30/40 seconds of running.   The entire unit becomes live because the earth terminal is connected to the chassis of the unit which is some what dangerous if childern are passing by. 

 

 

What exactly do you mean by that.

 

The earth, and hence the case of the heat pump should be connected to your supply earth via the supply cable, so it, and the case should not rise above earth potential.

 

IF you are saying you can measure anything between 130V and 230V on the case of the heat pump (measured with respect to what?) then your earth is not connected.

 

This is basic stuff that any electrician should be able to fault find.  Don't evem mention to the spark that it is a heat pump, tell him you have an earthing fault  to investigate.

 

There may well be an earth leakage issue within the heat pump as well, but the No 1 thing is to ensure the earthing is correct before going any further.  And leave the heat pump turned off at the consumer unit until the earthing has been checked out.

[DeeJunFan]

33 minutes ago, ProDave said:

What exactly do you mean by that.

 

The earth, and hence the case of the heat pump should be connected to your supply earth via the supply cable, so it, and the case should not rise above earth potential.

 

IF you are saying you can measure anything between 130V and 230V on the case of the heat pump (measured with respect to what?) then your earth is not connected.

 

This is basic stuff that any electrician should be able to fault find.  Don't evem mention to the spark that it is a heat pump, tell him you have an earthing fault  to investigate.

 

There may well be an earth leakage issue within the heat pump as well, but the No 1 thing is to ensure the earthing is correct before going any further.  And leave the heat pump turned off at the consumer unit until the earthing has been checked out.

 

It was a spark that carried out this initial investigation. 

 

He Disconnected the supply earth cable to try and figure out what the issue was. 

 

If the earth cable is left connected then it trips the RCB 30mA

 

So he is sure that its the unit itself that is throwing the earth fault.    He measured the Voltage on the earth with a voltage meter. 

 

The spark doesn't fell able to diagnose the issue any further. 

 

Heat pump guy says it could be a compressor issue but i have no way to diagnose that.   

 

There is no fault code on the Unit its reading H6 

[ProDave]

I am shocked if a proper electrician left it with the earth dosconnected.

 

What he needs to do is unplug or otherwise disconnect the compressor from the controls, and insulation test the actual compressor on it's own.  It saddens me that many electricians can't do something as simple as that.

 

Try registering on https://talk.electricianforum.co.uk/  and ask if there are any electricians there willing to have a look, I think there are a few on there from NI.

[DeeJunFan]

42 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I am shocked if a proper electrician left it with the earth dosconnected.

 

What he needs to do is unplug or otherwise disconnect the compressor from the controls, and insulation test the actual compressor on it's own.  It saddens me that many electricians can't do something as simple as that.

 

Try registering on https://talk.electricianforum.co.uk/  and ask if there are any electricians there willing to have a look, I think there are a few on there from NI.

 

Thanks Dave.

 

I asked could he test the compressor to see if it was giving trouble he said he wouldn't know how to do that.  Suggested I needed an engineer. 

 

I'll have a look on the forum.  

 

Thanks

[DeeJunFan]

I have sent the spark this video to see if he would be able to check it.